Demoed Scag and Yazoo/Kees today

Discussion in 'Lawn Mowing' started by notforprofit, Jun 27, 2004.

  1. notforprofit

    notforprofit LawnSite Member
    Posts: 52

    I've been looking at and researching ztr mowers mowers for about two weeks now ( some of you may have helped me out on this site-Thanks!). I'm a homeowner mowing 3 1/2 to 5 acres a week ( my father -in-laws property and mine- we're neighbors, as well as two of his retired friends places). Price is a consideration but I didn't want to skimp on the quality of a machine. Anyway, I demoed two units today that are top on my list- the Scag Tiger Cub 20 hp Koh/48" and the Yazoo/Kees 23 Koh/52".

    Pros and Cons (as I saw them today):

    Scag- $5995; very helpful and reputable dealer
    Pros:
    -controls were a bit stiffer than the kees, but responsive and smooth. It was easy to make small adjustments in travel and around things.

    -had a VERY solid feel to it and slighlty better ride to it. I have a very bumpy yard (not what I'd call a properly finished lawn) and it did not throw me around as much.

    -Gave a beautiful stripe. Maybe because it has two wide anti-scalp rollers that end where the tires begin, but whatever, my yard never looked so good.

    -Speed. Not a huge deal to me, but top end was faster than the Yazoo/Kees. Can't really mow at that speed in my yard at top speed anyway.

    -Didn't leave any grass standing, even when cutting fast and going through areas with lots of stemy clover. Cut looked nice and clean.

    Cons:
    -Sure footed enough, but did slip sideways when mowing crossways on hill.

    -In morning on slightly wet grass it seemed to clump some of the clippings- created what I guess you pros call a wind row. In addition, even on dry grass the clippings weren't near as fine as from the Yazoo and wood lay on top if the grass was thick at that spot.

    -Underside of deck loaded up terribly. When I lifted the deck to clean it I couldn't beleive it. It sort of created its own "mulch kit". There was actually three distinct donuts of grass under there, each almost as deep as the deck itself.

    -There's no anti-scalp roller in the middle of the deck- only one on each end. This matters big time on my mogully yard. Would have to weld on a bracket and mount one.


    Yazoo/Kees 23/52: $5700; very good dealer only 12 miles away

    Pros:
    -Seems to be very heavily built machine. A lot of engine and inches for the money.

    -Cut REALLY well. The clippings were much finer than the Scag. In fact, at most spots you couldn't hardly see the clippings. Very good dispersal and they must have just fallen through the grass. However, I didn't have the opportunity to try it on wet grass- that comes tomorrow.

    -Much steadier on our one hill than the Scag. The tires are 1" wider and set further apart. The stance is actually almost 7" wider than the Scag.

    -Lots of anti-scalp rollers (6) and provisions to mount one under the deck in back of the center blade.

    -Deck was quite clean after cutting. Only mild buildup around baffles. In fact the Yazoo had donuts of paint above the blades- no grass at all.


    Cons:

    -Had a bouncier ride than the Scag. Maybe a bit more difficult to control-nothing problematic though.

    -Controls not as responsive. I found it much more difficult to do a smooth 3 pt. turn. I could do them in one almost seamless motion with the Scag.

    -Less trim edge than the Scag. Only a little over 5" from the left front caster compared to about 7" for the Scag. However, the deck is only about an inch away from being flush with the rear tires on the Y/K.

    I felt both mowers were very good, high quality units. The control issue on the Y/K isn't bad, you just have to move the levers more to get the same response. The 52" cut on the Y/K is nice, but the overall compactness and maneuverability of the Scag was noticeable in tight spots (my father-in-laws...lots of obstacles).

    Any input you pros have I would greatly appreciate. Since I don't mow for a living, I'm not sure what points to put the most weight in.
    Thanks a bunch.
     
  2. POBOY

    POBOY LawnSite Member
    Posts: 16

    I have a 61'' y/k with a 25 hp and I am very happy so far only 140hrs so far but no problems yet. I get very fine clippings and it is steady on hills.:D
     
  3. notforprofit

    notforprofit LawnSite Member
    Posts: 52

    Thanks for reply, Poboy. Give that 1 vote for Yazoo.

    P.S. I looked up specs on both mowers. They both use Hydro-gear bdp10a pumps amd Parker-ross 15 wheel motors. Anyone know why the control would react differently on each?
     
  4. Envy Lawn Service

    Envy Lawn Service LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 11,062

    Well, where do I start? Oh the Scag stripe... The Y/K will stripe as good or better after proper deck adjustment, plus there is a stripe roller accessory you can get or build for the back of the deck. See my little picture for results without any accessories.

    As for the Y/K price, are you kidding? That's a great price. As for the ride, since you are cutting boucy lawns, upgrade to the full suspension seat with the savings you are getting and you will have a better ride than either.

    As for the controls, they are smooth rather than quick, which becomes a great asset after a little seat time. Jumpy controls are hard to deal with in certain situations and with them there is no option to creep slightly. Also, when you go back out, lift the seat and slide off the reverse return springs that pull the sticks back to neutral. You can just leave then hanging and slide them back on before returning it. You will be blown away at the difference and it makes turning so much easier to do right.

    As for the deck trim ability... this must be a large frame 52" mower, either the Max2 (v-shaft engine) or the ZT Max (H-shaft engine). If you want more trim, go to the 61" or check out the brand new Mid-Max 23/52" which also has more trim side due to a bit narrower rear track.

    Just make 100% sure your dealer is 'golden' before buying anything.
     
  5. Norm Al

    Norm Al LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,227

    go for the scag.....the yazoo is a boat anchor!
     
  6. wriken

    wriken LawnSite Silver Member
    Posts: 2,154

    The rougher ride may be a simple air adjustment. We run 7-8 lbs in our rear tire, 12x12x24 size. Both are probably good machines, I personally would go for the better cut. Plus you got 300.00 in your pocket for gas to mow for a couple years.:)
     
  7. notforprofit

    notforprofit LawnSite Member
    Posts: 52

    Envy-

    I kinda thought that about the stripe. That's the price he gave me! Stopped by his shop yesterday (for 2nd look at Yazoo) and I mentioned I had the Scag to demo. He said " Well, why don't you let me drop off this one after I close up. That's the best way to demo a mower-side by side. I think you'll be impressed." 1:30 rolled around and VOILA! There's a shiny, new MidMax with .6 hrs on the engine in my front yard.
    This IS the MidMax. I noticed in the shop that the tires set notably wider on this unit than the 48" MidMax in his shop. I believe this feelow to be a good dealer. Actually found out about him through another dealer who has his shop do repairs and work for their mowers. He's moves more Toros around here than any of the big shops. He does a huge parts business for older Toro/Wheelhorse customers, shipping parts all over the country. He's been in the buiness over 20 yrs. I get a good feeling about him.

    Wriken-

    The scag is at 8 lbs., I think the Yazoo dealer told me it was at 10 lbs.- I'll check it out and adjust. Thanks for reminding me about that.
     
  8. Itsgottobegreen

    Itsgottobegreen LawnSite Silver Member
    Posts: 2,177

    I am a wright fan, But if it was kees vs scag. I would go scag.

    I got a buddy with 2 toros, 1 exmark and 1 kees. The kees just sits at the shop. He claim that his crews break it everything they use it. (I know, since I reweld the frame on it, as a favor for borrowing their bedmaster).

    Don't forget also to look at the ferris IS ZTR and the Wright sentar. Both a great on bumpy lawns.
     
  9. notforprofit

    notforprofit LawnSite Member
    Posts: 52

    Itsgottobegreen,

    Thanks for the input. Whhy would you pick the scag over the Kees? You side your buddies employees keep braking them. Are they overly hard on them? The tube/box used on the frame measures the same as the Scag. Do you think the Yazoo is made cheaper in other areas? What were some of the problems your buddy had? I'd really like to know before I "laydownsomegreen"!
    Thanks again.
     
  10. notforprofit

    notforprofit LawnSite Member
    Posts: 52

    Updating post. Anyone else have experience with these machines?
     

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