Different types of turf

Discussion in 'All Pro Putting Greens' started by LB Landscaping, Oct 22, 2005.

  1. LB Landscaping

    LB Landscaping LawnSite Bronze Member
    from Maine
    Posts: 1,309

    Hi Chris,
    Glad to see you guys on board with LS. I have been looking into adding artificial putting greens as an ad on to my landscaping company for a little over a year now. I think I must have info form every company out there. One thing I found is there are a couple of companies that offer a variety of turf style (10 or more) where as others only offer a couple. What is the difference (I believe Allpro offers 2) and why do some companies offer so many different styles?
    Also I live way up here in Maine, how will the green last through our rough winters?? Would there be a possibility of adding revenue by "winterizing" greens?
     
  2. allprogreens

    allprogreens LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 503

    There are many types of synthetic putting green turf offered in the industry.

    The rational of companies that offer many types of products is that if the customer has a small budget, they can afford a low quality product and if the customer has a large budget, they can afford a higher quality product. Many times the lower quality products fail within a year from being installed. Problems from a low quality product include delamination which means seperation of the secondary backing from the primary backing, rippling of the turf itself from a cheaper backing, and inconsistent fiber height that affects the ball roll.

    Customers that receive many samples get confused.

    I can't count the number of times a contractor would get our information and buy another company's cheaper product thinking it was the same install process and within a year ripping that green out and replacing it with our product because the product failed to perform for the customer. The worst part is that the contractor that started with a several thousand dollar profit, looses money because he had to install another green. If the job is worth doing - it's worth doing right and not cutting corners. I have seen contractors buy cheaper adhesive, to joins roll of turf together, instead of using what we recommend. The contractors saved $15 on the install but had to replace a green in six months because the seam seperated. This cost the contractors thousands in product and labor.

    We have two products: a 1/2 inch putting green turf and a 1 inch putting green turf. The wholsale price is the same at $2.80 per sq.ft. The 1/2 inch is great if the customer is putting only. The 1 inch is designed for putting and receives shots from 150 yards. Even though a customer is only putting, we recommend the contractor install the 1 inch. For our "Certification Training Classes" we only show the install of the 1 inch turf. The ball roll on both prodcts are the same. There is alot more cushion feel to the green with the 1 inch, you should never see a seam with the 1 inch, and base prep is easier.

    We are not the cheapest - we never will be but we have the best product for the best price if you compare apples to apples.

    We do alot that others don't do because it cost alittle more but makes for a superior product. For instance, we use a narrower fiber that translates to more tips of fiber per sq. yd. that makes for a lusher and plusher product, we use a double primary backing to anchor the turf fiber, we use a eurthane secondard backing that absorbs into the double primary backing that grabs and permanently anchors the fiber in place, we double shear the turf to ensure a consistent tip height across the surface, and we inspect each green 3 times before it leaves our facility. You can view the difference on streaming video on our website: http://www.allprogreens.com/greeninfo-advantage.htm

    In addtion to a better product, we provide all the marketing materials needed to properly sell the product ( Pictorial Magazine, DVD, brochures, postcards, banners, replicating websites, build-a-green day, the 19th hole mixer, etc)

    We have a contractor in VT that installs massive 40' x 60' & 60' x 60' greens. These greens are the same year after year even w/ the harsh winters. I think the VT winters are close to the ME. winters. Call me and I will give you Rising Sun's phone number.

    Good Question

    Chris
    All Pro Greens
    www.allprgreens.com
    800-334-9005

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  3. LB Landscaping

    LB Landscaping LawnSite Bronze Member
    from Maine
    Posts: 1,309

    Thanks for the reply Chris, like I said I have been looking into this for a while and you guys by far have the best marketing and promotional info. I still receive the Golfscaper mag which has alot of great info and marketing ideas.
    I here you about the lower quality products, there is alot of crap out there. I am just concerned that as a selling point the variety would be good. 1, it would allow people with different budgets different options. 2, how would you sell to a customer who is shopping around and has another company that offers "variety" (Customer says you offer 2 kinds of turf and company X offers 12 different styles why is this?).
    Can you explain the difference in the in-fill materials? I know some companies use sand and I believe you recommend another product (can't remember the name:blush: ) or vise versa.
     
  4. allprogreens

    allprogreens LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 503

    Good Question!

    We have had many contractors in the past that would try to sell their customers a synthetic green at $10 to $12 a sq. ft. When the customers got the install price, they would have the "Sticker Shock" look:dizzy:

    We addressed this issue by developing the "Build-A-Green Day" program. This allows a customer that could never afford a $10 to $12 install, the ability to have the same green at half the price. You can read all about the program in the Dealer Section of our website: http://www.allprogreens.com/magazine/spring05-buildagreen.html

    EXAMPLE:

    You sell a 12' x 30 green at $5.50 per sq.ft. - Your cost is $2.80 per sq.ft.
    12’x30’= 368 sq. ft. x $2.20 profit = $809.60 to Overseeing an installation + You get paid .50¢ a sq. ft. or $184.00 profit to oversee an install. You have earned $993.60 total profit for 1 day of supervision.

    Benefits:
    • For every Build A Green Day, you will sell 2 more greens. Each golf buddy providing the free labor is a potential sale for a turn-key install, Build A Green Day or other landscape/hardscape work. From just one Build A Green Day, you have the ability to generate at least 12 leads.

    • It only takes one person to supervise the job. This means the rest of your crew can be busy on other projects.

    • You have the ability to eliminate local competition. There is no way that another company can compete with you at $5.50 per sq ft – that is their cost.

    • You can directly communicate the benefits of a green to each person attending

    The end result is the same. If a customer pays $10 to $12 per sq. ft. or pays $5.50 per sq. ft., they are getting the same installed green

    You could not install a cheaper quality product for $5.50 per sq. ft. Give the customer the best product for the money but then give them the two different install options.

    Think about this, what happens when the cheaper product fails? Now you have to spend more money on a call-back or rip-out.

    There are companies that sell, not manufacture, many types of synthetic turf that I like to call "Turf Whores". They sell any type of product but really don't know how to properly install them. They offer no warranties and little support. Then you have the manufacturers that make the products that may look good but never field test them.

    It is NOT worth buying a cheaper product and saving 5 cents or even 10 cents per sq. ft. to have calls backs that cost hundreds or thousands of dollar$.

    Infill:
    The infill we use is a "Coal Slag" if your on the east coast and "Copper Slag' on the west coast. The infill is a sand blasting product but it isn't sand. Sand will pack down and harden the putting green surface within 6 months. The slag product will not pack down over time and provide a cushion feel year round. Also, the slag is available in your area at sand blasting supply companies and it's the same price as the "silica sand" the many synthetic turf companies use.

    Chris
    All Pro Greens
    800-334-9005
    www.allprogreens.com

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  5. LB Landscaping

    LB Landscaping LawnSite Bronze Member
    from Maine
    Posts: 1,309

    Thanks Chris, Turf whores I like that!!!! I plan on taking the winter to leartn as much as possible and to do some marketing. Are you planning on offering training in other locations???
     
  6. allprogreens

    allprogreens LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 503

    All of our training classes are at our facility in Ringgold, Georgia except for one class. It will be in Bedford, Ohio which is a suburb of Cleveland. The Bedford class is November 19th from 8:30am to 4:00pm

    What you learn at the class is worth 10X the price.

    I have had guys installing greens for 2 years and learn more from the one day class than they did putting in greens. Then there is the marketing part of the class - this will drive the business.

    You can read more about the Certification Training Classes on our website: http://www.allprogreens.com/magazine/spring05-certtrain.html

    Call me to discuss 800-334-9005

    Chris
    All Pro Greens
    www.allprogreen.com

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  7. LB Landscaping

    LB Landscaping LawnSite Bronze Member
    from Maine
    Posts: 1,309

    Any chance of classes through in other parts of the country?
     
  8. allprogreens

    allprogreens LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 503

    Due to the heavy volume of business and time constraints, we can't do any other classes.

    You could always take the Online Certification Training Class and then come to a hands-on in the Winter or Spring. We have 3 to 5 contractors a day that are doing the Online training now before they come to the hands-on training several months from now. This gives them an idea of what to expect and gives them time to think of questions.

    The Online training is the exact same as the hands-on training. We had a video production company record an entire class.

    The great thing about the Online training is when you pay it you can come to the hands-on training for free and vis versa. If you come to the hands-on training then you have 24/7 access to the Online training.

    Chris
    All Pro Greens
    www.allprogreens.com
    800-334-9005
    [​IMG]
     

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