Employee Honesty

Discussion in 'Business Operations' started by prairie, May 13, 2002.

  1. prairie

    prairie LawnSite Member
    from kansas
    Posts: 115

    I have about 8-10 employees full time working for me with tree crews one irrigation 3 man, and 2 landscape install and maintenance crews running 3-4 man each.

    I don't have an electric time in/out ounch clock, but have just used time sheets instead and have worked in the past, but the more employees I get the more and more the time sheets don't match up. There were a couple of time I couldn't be at the shop when the crews left and when I get the time sheets back they have being at the shop and leaving at 6:30 in the morning.

    Now I had my wife drive by the shop those days and NO ONE was there before 9. And I get 6:30 on the time sheets, so I confronted the crew and they said they were waiting for another crew member at there home until 9 and wanted me to pay them from 6:30 on. I said what???? After explaining to them that they weren't working and I not paying them for waiting for a ride to car pool. Some were angry,, OH well anyway no more problems. Since then I have caught them cheating on the time sheets again so I let two of them go.

    My ? is what do you do? If you can't be there to start, and am meeting w/ clients what should I do.. I;m guessing just sift through and find more honest and realable crew members!!:blob2:
     
  2. HBFOXJr

    HBFOXJr LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,712

    #1, the guys screwing you were not just about time sheets, thats just what you caought them at. You did good to shed yourself of the problem(s).

    #2 I've used a time clock for years and they are worth it. I now use an Amano TCX-21. It is part mechanical and part electronic. Shows time on a conventional face but can be programed to punch 24 hr (military time and 100ths of an hr rather than minutes. My wife screamed when I told her this (she does the payroll). You simply subtract the litle number from the big number and deduct for lunch and thats the time. No more rounding and conversion to hrs and minutes is not necessary. First time she did it this way she was hooked. Also far fewer errors. Guys don't feel screwed by rounding.

    QB Payroll will take the info either way by entering 739a and 515p it knows thats hrs & minutes. Enter 8.27 and it knows that is 8 hr and 27/100ths of an hr and it converts that to 8 hr & 16 minutes. The clock also has a built in battery for power outages and know daylight savings time. Haven't touched since I got it a few years ago.

    We manually deduct for lunch inc ase someone goes home early or doesn't take lunch for some reason. Company rules say you
    can't punch another guys card either.

    More sophisticated stuff can read hand or eye prints or ID cards which may be a consideration if your not there a lot of mornings.
     
  3. prairie

    prairie LawnSite Member
    from kansas
    Posts: 115

    Thanks for the input. I just went out and bought a scanner type card time clock, a card for each individual. It even has the capability of sending the info to our offive for the hours, it's great.
     
  4. LawnLad

    LawnLad LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 738

    Our crew foreman record everyone's hours on their daily payroll/paperwork sheets. I haven't had a problem with honesty per se. But I do have to watch that they are classifying things properly. The records are open for anyone to see so if they have questions come paycheck time, they can look through the records to see what the hours they were clocked in. The crews are responsible to account for all their time, including travel to and from each job. Since we watch this pretty close - we haven't had a problem. The only realy problem we had is that lunch is usually 1/2 hour - or more if the crew desires longer, but they are not paid (so they usually only take 1/2 hour). The guys were staying "on the clock" to drive and get lunch, then take their half hour and then back on the clock to drive back to the next job on the route back on the clock. This was costing me another .17 (10 min) or more a day x 3 guys, or .5 man hour, times 5 days, or 2.5 man hours or more each week. I had to explain to them that if they didn't bring their lunch (which they are required to do) and the crew decided to buy lunch that day - that was on their time, not mine.

    I did hear a story about a guy who caught a couple of his guys kicking off the job early and going to the bar. He figured they had nicked him for about 8 hours that week that he caugh them on. So the next paycheck it was less 16 hours. When they inquired he told them, "You screwed me for 8 hours, so I'm screwing you for 8 hours". Didn't happen again.
     
  5. John Allin

    John Allin LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,489

    Ouch.....
     
  6. prairie

    prairie LawnSite Member
    from kansas
    Posts: 115

    I told my crew the same thing, you screwed me for 8 hrs over those two weeks and so am I... I even got a nasty letter from one of the guys wifes that said I didn't pay them the rest of the $$ she was going to the BBB or court all for $161 bucks......I don't really know how to respond to this so I'm waiting to write them another letter, saying no I'm not paying. I can't call them because they don't even have a phone so it's hard to get ahold of them.
     
  7. LawnLad

    LawnLad LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 738

    Play dumb. Don't put something in writing that you would have defend to an outside party that won't understand. Better to just play dumb with the wife. When she approaches you, ask her to talk with her husband about why the payroll deduction was made. Besides, you can't discuss company business with non-employees.

    By the way, did you hire the wife or the worker? Your employee doesn't have the back bone to stand up to you after he knows what he pulled with you, nor does he have the back bone to stand up to his wife. He might be telling his wife a different story. He's lucky to still have a job - too bad she doesn't realize that. She's just created more problems than it's worth.
     
  8. prairie

    prairie LawnSite Member
    from kansas
    Posts: 115

    Well I did send a letter stating why the pay was less than they thought. She is the one going after this not him, and she doesn't work for me...Funny thing she writes me this 3 page letter about how great her husband is then attacks me on how I'm a bad person and how I've tried to screw clients out of there landscap jobs.. I'm like what????? I can't believe this what a bunch of ****. Then she goes on and on about how I need to pay them and how bad a person I am and shame on me for doing this..
    What the Hell is this???
     
  9. LawnLad

    LawnLad LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 738

    Again... this is a classic example of why you don't entertain conversations with family members of employees about your employee's employment status. Coming from a family member and/or wife, it's emotional - not logical. She's dealing with half truths and mis-informaiton that is an interprutation of what your employee perceives and then translates to his wife in the version that paints him in the most favorable light - which usually means making you out to look like a chump.

    Further more, you don't know what issues they're dealing with in their personal life and the real purpose behind the letter. You'll never know - so responding to it on face value is just setting yourself up for trouble. If she respected you and your company - she'd tell her husband to deal with it, and not put you in the middle by writing you a 3 page blathering distertation on why her husband deserves to be treated differently. Basically she got you to play her game - and she's winning because she's got you answering to her. They evidently don't have control over their own life - so they're going to lash out and blame other people for their problems.

    You can't exactly tell her to shove off - but you don't have to play her game either. Be nice - just don't accomodate her demands. You're relationship, and therefore interests, are with your employee, not his wife.
     
  10. prairie

    prairie LawnSite Member
    from kansas
    Posts: 115

    I sent a letter to them before I got the 3 pager from them. And I haven't responded yet. What do you think I should do?

    1. not repond
    then have them go to the BBB office or court?

    Thing is He is paid CASH no deductions or 1099 and is getting $11/hr CASH that's the equivelent to $15-16/hr w/ deductions
     

Share This Page