. . . or the "how much a percentage of labour do I add to materials" posts. I rarely start threads here, but I cant bloody TAKE IT anymore!!!!!! Let me set you young lads straight when it comes to estimating hardscapes: 1. BUY THIS BOOK. 2. READ IT. 3. READ IT AGAIN, and write notes in the margins. 4. ATTEND A SEMINAR BY THE AUTHOR OR ONE OF HIS ASSOCIATES: http://www.icpi.org/node/1276 Thank you.