Ester or amine

Discussion in 'Pesticide & Herbicide Application' started by RigglePLC, Aug 4, 2011.

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  1. RigglePLC

    RigglePLC LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 11,785

    Are esters or amines better on the tough weeds like spurge and oxalis in hot weather? Does it matter whether you are low volume or high volume? Nozzle type? Pressure? Sticker?

    This needs a test.

    Myself, 2 years ago, I felt an amine like three-way was slightly better than ester on spurge (85 degrees). I had an elderly lady that had so much spurge she agreed to let me test 4 different products on her front yard, rather than skipping the late summer treatment. I have often heard that the dicamba portion of 3-way is the main component that does the job on spurge.
     
  2. n-green

    n-green LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 362

    I have always avoided esters in the summer. I think 3-way amine just pisses spurge off. I bought a gal of Q4 and spot sprayed some lawns this week. The Sulfentrazone is supposed to work well on Spurge. I will let you know.
     
  3. RigglePLC

    RigglePLC LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 11,785

    Sulfentrazone is sold as Dismiss when not mixed with other herbicides. The label lists spurge--HOWEVER--spurge is listed in a table of "Weeds controlled or suppressed".

    OR SUPPRESSED? Does that mean not killed? Let us know what happens, OK?
     
  4. n-green

    n-green LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 362

    " Sulfentrazone provides post emergent weed control for common weed species in turfgrass such as spurge. Foliar contact of Sulfentrazone on emerged susceptible weeds results in rapid dessication and plant tissue death"
    From the label. That being said, 5 DAT leaves are gray,crunchy and folded, stems are stiff with no sap. It may be the dicamba but I got tired of mixing 3 sprayers.
     
  5. White Gardens

    White Gardens LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 6,776

    I personally stay away from the esters during the summer. Even my supplier thinks that spring isn't ideal for an ester either and he says they use an ester only in the fall to late fall to really zap any hard to control weeds and get good control for the following season.

    I've had great luck with Surge this past season, even on spurge. Overall having a mix that contains 2-4d, Dicamba, Sulfentrazone, and MCPP-p really keeps the weeds out of the lawns I treat.

    During the middle of the summer if the temps are right, I'll mix in drive with Surge and I will finish off any patches of hard to controls that were left behind after the spring app.

    But, one thing I do realize is that if I acquire a heavily infested lawn, it's either going to get a good ester in the fall, or I'll need to look at mixes containing only one or two chemicals in order not to exceed yearly rates on each listed above. I'm leaning towards a late ester app to minimize my first year apps, and to get a good start on the following season.
     
  6. americanlawn

    americanlawn LawnSite Fanatic
    from midwest
    Posts: 5,842

    Amines do not kill tough summer annual weeds like spurge and oxalis unless you spray very heavy and add heavy duty additives (which are harmful on cool season turf). How 'bout knotweed & purslane too? :walking:

    Why not spot spray with an ester during the summer months when the hard-to-kill summer annuals are present? :confused: Why wait until they are ready to naturally die due to cold weather?

    Amine herbicides are typically more harmful to cool season turf compared to esters during high temps. (read product labels) Esters are sold for the purpose of killing difficult weeds...nuf said, so why not use them when the target pest is present. :confused:

    Question: Why use an ester in the fall when these difficult annual weeds will die with the first killing frost? Is this not a waste of product? Why not just use cheap 3-way amine in the fall?



    Curious
     
  7. dgw

    dgw LawnSite Bronze Member
    from OH
    Posts: 1,008

    esters, sorry 3-way amines are good for second app spring weeds only (dock,dandy,thistle,easy stuff)

    the trick is knowing if the lawn can take it


    but we all know you know riggle:walking::walking::walking::walking::walking::walking:
     
  8. americanlawn

    americanlawn LawnSite Fanatic
    from midwest
    Posts: 5,842

    I'm not talkin' if the lawn can take it. I'm talkin' "if the weeds can take it".

    2nd app ... what's that?

    "Dock" -- which one? Curly, bur or what? Cuz both take a long time to keel over.

    "Thistle" -- which ones? Cuz most don't die quickly regarding amines.

    Nuther one is Rugle's plantain .. takes a few weeks for it to shell out -- nomatter what one uses....even esters. I swear that weed is made out of leather. :laugh:

    Yep, riggle's a good friend -- just firing back with Q's. :waving:

     
  9. dgw

    dgw LawnSite Bronze Member
    from OH
    Posts: 1,008

    oh sorry, i think in terms of cleveland. 2nd app is in may around here

    either doc, any thistle and common or buck plaintain seem easy with 992 IMO , at least in spring


    i meant the ester in summer with "if the lawn can take it" i meant health of lawn wise




    i know you guys all know your stuff:drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup:



    it was an answer to the OP, not questioning your post
     
  10. dgw

    dgw LawnSite Bronze Member
    from OH
    Posts: 1,008

    and i 100% agree with your "why wait till fall" thing


    my customers showcase their lawns in the summer, and start their hibernation periods in the fall:laugh::laugh:
     

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