fertilizer questions

Discussion in 'Fertilizer Application' started by formerscrub, Dec 28, 2001.

  1. Nebraska

    Nebraska LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 525

    Thank you very much for all the info...will spend some time reviewing it....My Lesco dealer here in Omaha steers us away..any idea why? We use them because of the knowledge base and ability to see the whole picture, in my opinion no one around here who know's more, willing to spend the time, and as such I am willing to pay the tiny extra..
     
  2. Nebraska

    Nebraska LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 525

    Tremor,

    Would it be possible to move to one application only of Dimension .103 instead of using what we have done in the past which consisted of two apps of Pre-M .86& 6 weeks apart on every property? And still have good results without the staining We are in Nebraska...
     
  3. Pacific Nursery

    Pacific Nursery LawnSite Member
    Posts: 114

    Some of the more learned guys can tell you more but, Pre-M is a root pruner. In other words it'll prune back the roots of desireable and undesireable plants. Dimension is not a root pruner and of the two you mentioned is in my opinion the better product. I'll use dimension and barricade on my lawns this year.
    Barricade being the first choice, but dimension the cost concious choice.
     
  4. tremor

    tremor LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,476

    All dinitoanaline herbicide exhibit some degree of root injury. Rate & environmental factors are the determining factors as to what extent injury is exhibetted. Soil temps cause more root injury to Bluegrass than properly applied herbicides so you can let the wives tales fly, but there have been very few studies to prove otherwise on turf. Ag crops are much more of an issue. Dimension is not a dna herbicide but does cause phyto-toxic symptoms that are unique to itself on some fescues & bents & when mis-applied will still toast any lawn.

    Two apps of ANY pre-emergent herb are better than 1 of the best. I will print & fax some excellent Power Point slides to anyone who wants to see them but I can't cut & paste them into this forum. I tried. There isn't time or space to copy all the data here on split vs single apps. There are 32 slides of data in total.
    Simply stated, for a single application of any of the big three, we need to consider rate in pounds of active ingredient per acre.
    Example:

    Dimension Ultra & G Pendimethalin Barricade
    .188#/Ai 1.5#Ai .38#Ai
    .25#Ai 2#Ai .5#Ai
    .38#Ai 3#Ai .75#Ai
    This table was condensed from data gathered at OSU, Miss. State, NC State, U of MD, & Penn St. Also contributing were 46 independent LCO's, 13 Golf Courses, 10 TruGreen/ChemLawn trials & 12 LESCO sponsored sites. Data was gathered in 37 states between 1998 & 2000.

    These rates would all produce a very similar percent control over the course of 120 days. By 120 days, all the breaks are big enough to see, count, & evaluate. So that's how old most of the plots were when evaluated on the single treat tests. Soil type can skew results too, so if you want me to send data, specify soils, state, & grass type cause I'm not faxing all 32 pages to anywhere.

    In other words if you're doing Pre-M twice @1.5# for a total of 3#Ai, you still need to do 2 apps of either of the other two to get the same result because a single app at these rates would cause turf injury. That said, if 2 apps aren't an option, give serious consideration to rate selection & use Diemnsion. Timed correctly, all these herbs do a good job. Last year, no one was happy with ANY of the pre's because it didn't get watered in by rain. Changing chemisties won't solve environmental challenges at all.

    sls247@lesco.com

    Steve
     
  5. Nebraska

    Nebraska LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 525

    What would you do?

    I can get the following products at the following costs per 1000SF

    Dimension .10% 18-3-10 : $1.55 per 1000
    Team Pro .86% 19-3-7: $.97 per 1000
    Team 1.15 % 24-2-5: $.87 per 1000
    PreM .86% 19-3-7: $1.20 per 1000
    (all 20-30% slow)

    The market calls for 2 apps...a lot of crab grass.
    Regardless I am going 1 app on my personal property and organic for the rest.

    The bottom line questions is are:
    Are the 350 properties that we fert going to notice any difference between the use of any of these products? (except for the lady that has a degree in Hort...)
    Is it just a matter of my bottom line?
     
  6. Harvestman

    Harvestman LawnSite Member
    Posts: 233

    I used dimension 19-0-6 .10 % this year. I talked to the folks at lesco about 2 applications of pre-m. I was told that in my area (miami valley) that it was a waste of money. So I'm going with 1 app of the dimension. I was told it lasts about 4 months when properly applied. Harvestman
     
  7. Nebraska

    Nebraska LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 525

    Thanks Harvest....

    Everyone else must agree that it's a cost issue?
     
  8. Ric

    Ric LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 11,956

    Nebraska


    I don't know the turf etc in your area so I might be talking out of turn. However if you can spray then liquid applys of Pre Ms are the most cost of chemical effective. Any time you buy a fertilizer pesticide blend you are going to pay more than buying seperate. However these blends can be very cost effective from the stand point of response and labor costs. Liquid Vs dry is something you might look into. I don't know your area so that all I can Add.
     
  9. tremor

    tremor LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,476

    Nebraska,
    By the numbers you posted, it looks like you were quoted $18.60/bag Dimension. Pre-M about $14.40.

    That said, the Dimension should be within about $1.00 of the Pre-M if the fertilzers are close to the same thing & they are.

    I'd beat somebody up for the Dimension at $15.40 assuming it's a 30% slow release like the Pre-M.

    Check your private e-mail, I find something strange here.

    Steve
     
  10. Meagle816

    Meagle816 LawnSite Member
    from mo
    Posts: 12

    I found 18-3-10 20% SCU .103 Dimension at 15.60 a bag.
    cost about $ 1.30 / K

    Lesco 19-0-6 Dimension .103 was like 16.70 a bag
     

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