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Friendly w/ competition

4K views 46 replies 28 participants last post by  Guest 
#1 ·
I was thinking, and that alone scared me, but see if some of you guys can help me understand this. When I was back in CT in Biz, it seemed like most of competition wasn't very friendly and never really want to talk or help each other out (until they needed something of course!!) I was always outgoing, I had no reason to fear them, they had no reason to fear me, there was enough to go around. What I don't understand is why are a lot of contractors scared to talk with others in the biz? Theres no magic secret about lawn maintenance that might leak out to me, so what do you have to hide/lose? Theres only something to gain, I think, because you can learn from others mistakes, and hopefully not have to make them all for yourself. I don't know just a thought and kind of a continuation on Homer's the next level post.

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<a href="http://communities.msn.com/guidosequipmentpics/">"Guido"</a>
David M. Famiglietti
 
#2 ·
I guess that one will continue to be a mystery. It would be funny if everybody on this forum was in a 100 mile radius and then we would see how much we shared info and who would help who. I am currently "coaching" a guy that bought out a biz last year, it was a part time thing for the owner and he never set up any annual accounts so the new owner is dependant upon rain for income. I think he made a big mistake but he didn't know any better. It was raining when he bought it so everything looked good, when it stopped so did the income.

As for others in my area, we don't geehaw much either, there is one guy I talk with and sometimes we even discuss the amounts we are charging, thought about teaming up with him a time or two but have just about given up on that idea. Funny how we all seem to be able to chat about prices and work, and what we should or could do but the in town competition stays away from each other, hell, they won't even wave when you go by!
Maybe one day we'll all be able to get along.

Homer
 
#3 ·
I find that up here in cheeseland most of my "counterparts" are very friendly. We have a comparatively small market of 250,000 people over about a 400sq mi county. (I didnt measure it with my wheel so the numbers are close)
Most guys I see on the road always wave and we talk when we are at the dump. I think some of the newbies are a little apprehensive to interact because they may fear someone is gonna take their business. If they make it around for a few years they find that there is enough work to go around and I'm not looking to steal his accounts.

I've had guys offer to help me if I get behind and I've offered the same back. We are lucky here because growth is steady, from massive business complexes to single family homes.
I think it boils down to what kind of person you are, everybody really wants to be liked and over time we all find our place. Nice thought.
 
#4 ·
maybe it was just the snooty tooty prick city life I was coming up in?? When I retire from the AF, I'm hoping to settle down in Va, SC, NC, Floridia hopefully. We'll see, who knows whereI'll end up! I hope its a little frendliar (I know its not a word!) then city life!

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<a href="http://communities.msn.com/guidosequipmentpics/">"Guido"</a>
David M. Famiglietti
 
#5 ·
Guys-

Woulnd't it be nice to go down the road and not get shunned off by your competition. I always try to wave or speak, other than the select few they all just ignore me. If we could all be civil our prices may be able to go up :)

Just a thought!!

Mike
Greenkeepers
 
#6 ·
Just as an experiment...last Friday I waved to every lawn crew I saw out on the road (which was many!) of which NONE waved back. I got lots of weird looks though. I think everyone views the other as a threat in my area even though there is still plenty of work for all. Attitudes definitely prevail.
 
#7 ·
I have found that participating in professional organizations helps to 'break the ice' and gets people talking on a friendlier basis. It is possible to have friends who are competitors. Just play fair and don't give away sensitive information that will cause hard feelings.

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Lanelle
 
G
#8 ·
The anti-social LMO's are the losers! They lose out on good info, education and building their social skills. Too much synergy can be gained by being friendly. Let them be "anti" we professionals will be what the name implies....."pro"
 
#9 ·
Gentlemen,

First post, so please excuse any lack of courtesies that might have evolved on this forum over time.

I wave when I happen to notice a lawn crew, but I don't stop to chat unless I happen to bump in to one at a fueling station. At least I don't discuss my business, I worked to hard for the knowledge I posess and I don't give it away.

We do have a reputation in town as hard chargers, if you don't want to do your job, we'll do it and get more for it. So it's not to often that we get a chance to chat it up anyway.

Nope, I don't want to be friendly with my competition, civil yes, friendly no way. It's a competition and I intend be on top! (Or as close as possible!)

Thanks,
Albert
 
#10 ·
I'm always friendly to everyone until THEY piss ME off or give me a reason not to like them. Only 1 or 2 in our area of about 20 have accomplished that. I regularly chat with a handful of guys I've known for awhile & trust, but just like in the Martial Arts, you never give "too many secrets" out.

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Smitty ô¿ô
 
#11 ·
Albert, I can't understand your concept. Maybe If you can answer 2 questions for me and it will help. I'll tell you up front though, that a lot of what this forum is about (and hopefully where its headed in the future) Is us (as in contractors) working together (not physically, but in a business sense) to help raise prices accross the industry, etc. I don't think your attitude on this is a good one, but thats just my opinion, don't want to argue about it.

here are my questions:

1. Do you really think you "pocess a knowledge" (quoted from your post, kinda)that makes you cut grass better then the next guy, that if your secret got out, your competition would eat you alive? I envy you if you do. I don't think theres really any "secrets" in the business, besides what you may charge. Unless you have a magic way to cut mowing time in half or something, I don't understand why you wouldn't want to help "raise the bar" as homer puts it.

#2 Ties in with #1, again, I'm not trying to be negative, just trying to understand. If you don't want to be friendly with your competition as you said yourself in your post, why are you here? How do you know your competition isn't here? I've made a lot of friends on here. Whats your purpose, so far you said you do not want to be friends with us (your competition), and you don't want to share your secret knowledge, so just wondering what you expect to get/ and in turn contribute to the forum.

I Hope you don't take this the wrong way, I'm just trying to understand all views on this matter. Thanks in Advance!

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<a href="http://communities.msn.com/guidosequipmentpics/">"Guido"</a>
David M. Famiglietti
 
#13 ·
I think that people who don't charge enough, may be the mean ones. Lowballers have a high turnover rate. So they are alwayse on the edge. Higher rates with the quality, at least in my area, is the road less traveled. I like being on it and I wave to em all!

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Yesteryear L/S
Hollywood Fla
 
#14 ·
I must live in the freindly state...I asked several people larger companys about getting in the biz all helped over the past couple years I have become freinds with comptition, we give out help with equipment we also dont really try to steal accounts we know who is doing what...there is a few people in town who try to cut in but the are the fly by nighters who well are getting out of it about this time of year.....
 
#15 ·
I don't know where ya'll are from but around here everyone is friendly to each other if I am out mowing a yard and another operation drives by they almost always wave and everyone knows who all the guys are from seeing them around. If I am mowing across the street from another operation and we are both by our trucks we sometimes will talk to each other if where not in a hurry. I have never heard of this problem. I've seen some of them around after hours and they tell me about there new mower and how sweet it is some other things. I have never heard this problem.

Exquisite Lawn Services
Central Flordia
Where the sun shine's all the time
 
#16 ·
Guido,

You are right, in a sense, that there is no secrets in our industry. What is a closely guarded trade secret though, is "attitude".

Allow me, if you please, to ellucidate what I mean. I have very few rules in my LMO. They are as follows: Clean shirts, shaven faces, thank you and please, smile when you speak to a customer, tip your cap to a lady, and a matter of honor waits for noone. The most important one is the thank you and please. All the other stuff derives directly from that one rule.

As to forums, while it may be true that some of my competitors may (and that's a big may!)be online. The chances are remote that they may put together the essentials in what I say into practice.

Mr. Phagen, glad to see you here. But if I might remind you, at your seminar held at the Tampa Fairgrounds in '98, you said something to the effect, "Friendly with you competition? They're smiling in your face while they're trying to take your business." Now I admit I might have taken it out of context but I think the principle still applies. I might add that in my limited experience most of the players in the LM field are relatively unsophisticated in terms of business acumen.

Now having said all that, I will say that I am not above brainstorming, shareing info and all that stuff. I just don't want to do it with the guy I'm head to head with. As Mr Phagen can attest, here in West Central Florida you can't go two blocks without bumping into 3 grass cutting outfits.

Now as I have been thinking this over, I can see some benefit from dealing with organizations that are professional, ie insured, incorporatated, paying taxes, expanding the economy via job creation, paying their employees a wage they can live on (pretty novel concept, huh?), etc. But if you want me to chat it up with Joe and his cousin, or Mom and Pop, not likely. Even though they don't compete with me directly, they might, and that's enough for me.

Ok I'm off my stump!:)

Thanks,
Albert
 
#17 ·
HHHMMMMMMMMMMM............SUMPIN JUS AINT RITE CHEER! WHURD U SAY YOUS FROM MR. BERT?
IF'N I DIDN' NOSE BETTERS I'D SWAR YOUS FROM ANGLAND OR SUMPIN.......GLAD YA AIN'T AROUND ME, SOUNDS LIKE YOU MIGHT BE HARD TA GIT ALONG WIT.

I'D TRY TO ELLUCEEEDATE WHUT I MEEN BUT JES CANT TIRE NOW. AS ITS 2 DANG LATE

HOUUUMMMMMMERRRRRRRRR

ps.......ya'll got stumps ov.....arrr

Edited by: HOMER
 
#18 ·
Homer, LOL!! Albert, I know it probobly doesn't mean much coming from me but I think your a real professional. Thats the first time I was able to debate an issue with someone here that didn't turn into an argument. Even though I don't exactly agree with all your saying, I appreciate the fact that your man enough to discuss an issue instead of argue and throw blows. Thanks, we need more like you around here.

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<a href="http://communities.msn.com/guidosequipmentpics/">"Guido"</a>
David M. Famiglietti
 
#19 ·
Guido,

Thanks for the kind words.

After thinking about it for the better part of the day, I came to the conclusion that perhaps I was a bit hasty in my original explanation/conclusion.

I think that perhaps my opinion was colored by several incidents that have transpired. West Central Florida is pretty competative, but the players I compete with are the fellows above me in terms of market share, capitalization, manpower, longevity, etc. I can see where communication with those players would benefit me.

Early in my LMO career, I made the aquaintence of a fellow who has a 5 truck firm. (I rank them that way.) Anyway he gave me some advice, which in hindsight I would have figured out on my own soon enough, but at the same time he pumped me for information in a most subtle way, that is he asked point blank. And in my hubris, I foolishly answered. Well, at the time I had a major client, and when it came time to renew the contract, who do you think got it? Since then, I haven't given an ounce of information.

Now, again in hindsight I realize that there was noone to blame, but myself. First year in operation, cocky, undercapitalized, and a lousy partner, bad combination!

Now comes the real question, how do you propose that professionals interact?

Homer,
Yes I am rather well educated. You'll forgive the overuse of adjectives, redundant phrases used to illustrate, and the occasional cliche'.
Actually I was a Biologist, (microbiologist to be exact.) then a bartender, (Rats just got bigger.) and I sort of fell into the LM industry. My preference is for civil discourse, as I enjoy the emotive qualities of a well thought out idea expressed in the english language. So, with your permission I will continue to tack up dangling participles.;)

Thanks,
Albert
 
#20 ·
The best way to learn is to teach.

The guys that don't share generally don't know anything.

Of the dozen or so guys I personally know who make a 6 figure income in this business - all are more than willing to help out with most any information.

The guys that are "clutching" of information are so narrowly focused and probably don't have anything worthwhile to share anyway.
They're too focused on making their weed trimmer payment that they view everyone else as a threat.
 
#24 ·
bdemir says, "About 10-15 more years and the ozone will kill us and this business anyways!"

That's the second reference I read to that today. People have been telling me that since the early 80s and I ain't buying it yet. Tell ya what, though, I'll be happy to take yer business off yer hands in, say, five years so you don't have to worry about it.

I'll risk the exposure. ;)

-TGC
 
#25 ·
Over here we are all pretty friendly with each other. Obviously no-one discusses prices
for specific jobs,unless you know the guy very well. Look on the bright side,in the
towing industry here,the towies would beat the **** out of each other to pick up a
lucrative smash tow.

Karl
 
#26 ·
Just a note of clarification. When I mentioned professional organizations I was referring to groups such as PGMS, PLACCA, ALCA and Nursery Associations, which are voluntary, educational and non-profit. These organizations work to provide educational and social events that appeal to their membership and potential members. Just as we share gripes and successes here on the forum, the same happens at these events. And giving away bidding info is a rarity.

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Lanelle
 
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