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Going Legal and need advice

6K views 20 replies 16 participants last post by  Tsklandscaping 
#1 ·
Last season I was off the books and was pretty successful while racking up equipment. I had about 23 accounts. This season I am wanting to go legit and go big. I have the equipment already, a little older but I am planning to replace it as the business grows.

I will use this thread to continue to ask questions, but the main question I have right now is if I am having a brilliant idea, or if it is not a good idea at all.

Last season, I got alot of customers because they liked seeing a teenager (I'm 16, 17 in march) out working instead of just sitting on his butt. I realize that not everybody would want a young kid doing this kind of work, but I think I was successful because I am 6', 205, full beard, live in the gym for football... you get the picture. What Im getting at, when the people saw me, they thought I was out of college trying to make a start in life/trying to pay for college. When they talked to me and got to know me, they were shocked I was in high school for one, and they loved the fact that I was out there working my butt off. (lots of lazy kids in my area haha) My slogan was "An honest, hard-working teenager looking for work". I think that my age and "get it done right or not get paid" attitude was a key to my success.

I also think that being young and advertising as a teenager on my flyers (the slogan), lost me a bunch of potential business because they didnt the risk of a kid working on their yard and just threw the flyer out. I think that becoming a legitimate business and being able to advertise being licensed and insured will help in that area.

I am banking on door-to-door advertising, and that the niche that I have with my age will get me a bunch of yards, while being insured and a legitimate business.

My question is, should I further play with the niche and name my business "Panther Lawn Care, L.L.C.", and have a football helmet on the trailer with my number with quote, mimicking the local high school I go to? (See attached pics). Maybe make a deal with my coach for home game tickets, and give them out free to my clients as a perk? (which in turn would increase game attendence and concession sales).

Or would this have a more negative than positive for me being young, even though Im licensed and insured? Should I go with something safer and more professional like "D&W Lawn Care, L.L.C."?

Trying to get all this figured out and set up to get the business side set up so I can start advertising before the grass starts growing.

Also, been researching on the site about starting up, and I notice that there are tons of "Im starting up and am expecting to make a million" threads and members get annoyed by these. I am going try my best not to sound like this. I have the equipment to start already from last year and no debt. Ive got a good amount to start up again with, to cover setting up the business and advertising and operating costs until the money starts to flow again. I'm not expecting a million, but am wanting 15-20 an hour for me, which is a heck of alot more that what I can make working minimum wage, which is my goal. I have an expense calculations thing set up in Excel that I would like to have checked to make sure its sound. (used it last year to just make sure I wasnt losing money) (mower use, maintenance, fuel burned, etc. by minutes machined used). I understand this isn't a gold-mine, and not everything earned is profit, its hard work that could have high reward if done right, but I like the work.

Also, I understand I cant open a business at my age. Been reading through this and am going to get one of my parents to sign for the corporation, and then I would be an employee. I read somewhere on here that a minority owner of a corporation (woman), could get tax breaks, so I will most likely ask my mom to help me. Any help on this will help and is welcome.

But for right now I would like to get the name straight first.

Sorry for rambling,
Danny Williams
 
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#3 ·
I'm young like you, although I'm 20, I don't know if you should go with the Panther Lawn Care idea. Although I like it. What happens when you're out of high school in two years and still have a football helmet on your trailer. you won't want to go through the hastle of changing everything. I would go with DW Lawn Care and still maybe offer the football stuff you had mentioned in the posting. Just my opinion.

YardBros Outdoors
www.yardbros.com
 
#4 ·
I don't know if i'd put that teenager looking for work part on there either.. IMO. just me though.. I would think that could possibly work against you in more ways than help. I'm not young, but i was young once.. and i do remember how when people perceive you as a high school kid it is a little harder to gain their trust from the start.
 
#8 ·
If your going legit, get yourself a good local independent insurance agent, a good attorney and a good accountant. It's essential to have the right people supporting your day to day efforts and you'll save money in the long run and enjoy your business more. If you don't know any, ask for referrals. Good luck.
Ben
 
#9 ·
Why not be a DBA first? its a legal company and allows you to open a checking account. Its cheaper than insurance (Min $20 - Max $50 depending on town here). As a first year operation I see this best for myself, you being established might be better going LLC. Im not fully sure though, I will have to check back alot.
 
#10 ·
definately stay away from the high school thing. get the football helmet off, forget about the slogan right now. Don't worry so much about a slogan where a slogan is mainly for huge corporations where millions of people a day hear the slogan and it is put into their minds. this is usually only successful for multi million dollar companies. for now, focus on getting legit. get your licensing set up. Dont do an LLC, i would start with a DBA or a self proprietorship to start off with. Get a general liability insurance, and don't rely only on door to door advertising, thats still a good plan but use craigslist and/or put an ad in your local newspaper. Also word of mouth and referals from existing clients always work well. Focus on quality work and not competing against prices, but rather service. DO NOT get into debt until you absolutely have to, and most importantly stay focused and consistent.
 
#11 ·
I would start as a dba also. As for the the teenage stuff i would stay away from it. One thing I notice is everyone seems to name them selves xxxxxxx lawn care. Do you ever plan on doing landscaping? if so i would incorporate landscaping into your name some how. In my opinion if i saw a name with just lawn care in it i wouldnt call them for a planting or clean up.
 
#12 ·
Don't think I'm trying to discourage you, but there is a problem you may have overlooked. You're still 16 years old. You are not going to be able to enter into contracts. Do you have an adult who will be, on paper, the owner of this business?

For those who are urging you to go with a dba, if you have plenty of insurance, that can make life simpler. If you have minimal insurance, you, personally, are effectively judgement proof because you currently own nothing that could be seized to satisfy a judgement. But depending on local laws, your family's assets might be seized. I am a strong proponent of using an LLC to limit liability, but the accounting issues become much more complicated than if you have a dba, so you need to consider the pros and cons of both, and decide what is right for you.

And I agree with those who would strongly discourage a high school theme, or even reference to your youth, in your marketing. Focus on professionalism and competence.
 
#13 ·
Im 20 and I personally like the High School name, but it could make other(rival) high school alumnus's to go with another company.

Definitely STAY AWAY from the teenager slogan, it doesn't sound great and your gonna be 20 in three years and not a teenager anymore.

I was going to say to just be a sole proprietor your first season or two, but sense your parents are at fault then you definitely need to become an L.L.C.

-Michael
 
#14 ·
Im 20 and I personally like the High School name, but it could make other(rival) high school alumnus's to go with another company.

Definitely STAY AWAY from the teenager slogan, it doesn't sound great and your gonna be 20 in three years and not a teenager anymore.

I was going to say to just be a sole proprietor your first season or two, but sense your parents are at fault then you definitely need to become an L.L.C.

-Michael
single member LLC offers little protection.

Problem with the teen slogan: people will be worried that you will be going out of business at the end of summer or when football starts
Posted via Mobile Device
 
#15 ·
Dont do the Football thing. What are you going to do when you are 40 and have a persona that the best days of your life was over 20 years ago. You will go further with your last name. When I started I did a lot of Topiary work. I loved art and loved plants. I am "Living Art Landscaping LLC." Why Not "Panthers Turf"? You can have your love of football with out it looking funny after time has past. No football slogans . No helmet ! Sounds like to me you sold the work not the game of football.
 
#16 ·
Ok, I have thought about all this info the past couple of days.

Seems like the majority think that staying clear from advertising that Im young in any way is the best bet.

Been thinking about the name then, and since I dont have the knowledge nor desire to do hardscapes/installs right now, instead of "D&W Landscaping, L.L.C.", Im leaning more towards "D&W Lawn Services, L.L.C." to show that I still want to do bush trimming and clean ups, etc.

As for the business side of it, Im leaning more towards an llc since my parents will be owning the business and would be liable for it. So how would that work? Would my parent be the owner and me a worker? Or would we co-own?

Also, correct me if Im wrong, but from what Ive seen here and read up on on this site, the minimum insurance I would need would be general liability, and commercial insurance on truck, right?

I am currently searching for local lawyers and insurance guys that Im sure can answer all these questions when I go and talk to them, but any insight y'all can give me so I dont look completely stupid would be very helpful.

After I save up another 3k, I'll have enough cash to get a decent f250 dump truck or something similar. I was planning on using my truck to pull the trailer and handle clippings until I save up that 3k whether it be from cutting grass or from some of my other ventures. So how would that work insurance wise? I have a 2010 Toyota Tacoma and Id imagine commercial insurance on it would be outrageous. Can I dodge that bullet long enough until I get the dump truck? I'm figuring another month or two. Its got reg insurance, just wondering if I could get away from getting commercial on it or if its even necessary to begin with.

I used the tacoma last year, and it pulled everything alright. I am just looking to get a bigger truck so I can have the option of pulling a bigger enclosed trailer someday, and the dump would save an astronomical amount of time of managing clippings compared to a 5' bed I had to rake out everyday when I was done, then wash my truck everytime I wanted to go somewhere haha

Thanks!
Danny
 
#17 ·
Grass clippings will eat that bed alive. So don't leave the clippings in there. Just a FYI . The insurance for that truck should not be too bad. Don't sweat it that much.
Posted via Mobile Device
 
#18 ·
Ok, I have thought about all this info the past couple of days.

I used the tacoma last year, and it pulled everything alright. I am just looking to get a bigger truck so I can have the option of pulling a bigger enclosed trailer someday, and the dump would save an astronomical amount of time of managing clippings compared to a 5' bed I had to rake out everyday when I was done, then wash my truck everytime I wanted to go somewhere haha

Thanks!
Danny
As far as the clippings,simply get away from bagging. Get mowers with the ability to mulch well and preach that it is better for the lawn.
 
#19 ·
I agree with most of the others that you should stay away from the high school theme or mentioning your age for several reasons. When people see that you're young, they picture the neighborhood kid who comes and cuts their lawn for $5 rather than the professional who comes and performs a top level service for a reasonable price.

Like others have said you will have to change everything around once you're out of high school and no longer a teenager. Branding is the big buzzword in small business right now, you have a good start and will continue to grow your brand for a few years but then you'll have to completely abandon the brand that you have created and change things around. On the same token I prefer business names that aren't your name again for the branding aspect. Two examples around my area are The Happy Mower LLC and Bob and Daves lawncare LLC. In the professional world while some may see The Happy Mower as cheesy it is much easier to brand than a personal name.

Just my 2 cents, many people in this business are only concerned about the field work aspect of the business and don't put thought into the business side of running a business, while some information won't apply to the green industry business classes apply pretty universally and really provide some great insight for building and operating a business that can put you ahead of the guy next door.
 
#20 ·
we need a like button. So I dont have to repost something I like. Good points guys.
 
#21 ·
Last season I was off the books and was pretty successful while racking up equipment. I had about 23 accounts. This season I am wanting to go legit and go big. I have the equipment already, a little older but I am planning to replace it as the business grows.

I will use this thread to continue to ask questions, but the main question I have right now is if I am having a brilliant idea, or if it is not a good idea at all.

Last season, I got alot of customers because they liked seeing a teenager (I'm 16, 17 in march) out working instead of just sitting on his butt. I realize that not everybody would want a young kid doing this kind of work, but I think I was successful because I am 6', 205, full beard, live in the gym for football... you get the picture. What Im getting at, when the people saw me, they thought I was out of college trying to make a start in life/trying to pay for college. When they talked to me and got to know me, they were shocked I was in high school for one, and they loved the fact that I was out there working my butt off. (lots of lazy kids in my area haha) My slogan was "An honest, hard-working teenager looking for work". I think that my age and "get it done right or not get paid" attitude was a key to my success.

I also think that being young and advertising as a teenager on my flyers (the slogan), lost me a bunch of potential business because they didnt the risk of a kid working on their yard and just threw the flyer out. I think that becoming a legitimate business and being able to advertise being licensed and insured will help in that area.

I am banking on door-to-door advertising, and that the niche that I have with my age will get me a bunch of yards, while being insured and a legitimate business.

My question is, should I further play with the niche and name my business "Panther Lawn Care, L.L.C.", and have a football helmet on the trailer with my number with quote, mimicking the local high school I go to? (See attached pics). Maybe make a deal with my coach for home game tickets, and give them out free to my clients as a perk? (which in turn would increase game attendence and concession sales).

Or would this have a more negative than positive for me being young, even though Im licensed and insured? Should I go with something safer and more professional like "D&W Lawn Care, L.L.C."?

Trying to get all this figured out and set up to get the business side set up so I can start advertising before the grass starts growing.

Also, been researching on the site about starting up, and I notice that there are tons of "Im starting up and am expecting to make a million" threads and members get annoyed by these. I am going try my best not to sound like this. I have the equipment to start already from last year and no debt. Ive got a good amount to start up again with, to cover setting up the business and advertising and operating costs until the money starts to flow again. I'm not expecting a million, but am wanting 15-20 an hour for me, which is a heck of alot more that what I can make working minimum wage, which is my goal. I have an expense calculations thing set up in Excel that I would like to have checked to make sure its sound. (used it last year to just make sure I wasnt losing money) (mower use, maintenance, fuel burned, etc. by minutes machined used). I understand this isn't a gold-mine, and not everything earned is profit, its hard work that could have high reward if done right, but I like the work.

Also, I understand I cant open a business at my age. Been reading through this and am going to get one of my parents to sign for the corporation, and then I would be an employee. I read somewhere on here that a minority owner of a corporation (woman), could get tax breaks, so I will most likely ask my mom to help me. Any help on this will help and is welcome.

But for right now I would like to get the name straight first.

Sorry for rambling,
Danny Williams
You should take out the text part and the teenager part and the slogan. All you need is your company name and phone big enough for everyone to see. Honestly people wont have time to look at you slogan when you are going 45mph down the road. And you honestly don't need to go "legal" the only reason you would have to go legal is if you are doing commercial properties.
and then you would be subject to a 1099 from them. but if your going to mow residential you don't need to go legal and you can still have your name on your trailer. Hope it helps!!
 
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