HAHAHAHAHA!!! Salts DON'T kill microbes like everyone so easily believes.

Discussion in 'Organic Lawn Care' started by JDUtah, Aug 18, 2008.

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  1. JDUtah

    JDUtah LawnSite Silver Member
    from UT
    Posts: 2,636

    Seriously guys, how can you believe that bunch of crap? Before I expand, please help me...

    Where in the world did you learn that? So far most everyone that I hear saying that salts in fertilizers kill microbes sources their info from Dr. Ingham. The only other source I have noted is form our friend Stewards of the Land, who made that claim but most his learning is from Dr Melendrez.

    So I ask again, where did you learn salts kill microbes?
     
  2. treegal1

    treegal1 LawnSite Gold Member
    Posts: 3,911

    after a hurricane like we are getting now its called a sand dune??? every time we see salt in the soil its an up hill battle!!!! maybe Tim or some one else will chime, maybe its when the chlorine comes un glued from the sodium????
     
  3. Kiril

    Kiril LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 18,308

    "Salts" don't kill microbes. Microbes and plants need salts.
    What kills microbes and plants are high concentrations of salts.
     
  4. treegal1

    treegal1 LawnSite Gold Member
    Posts: 3,911

    any weight to the theory that the Cl Na split at all??? or is this just a fairy tail????
     
  5. JDUtah

    JDUtah LawnSite Silver Member
    from UT
    Posts: 2,636

    Thanks Kiril, that's my understanding. Question for you... Can an organic landscape (nutrient cycling, no/low input) ever produce an overabundance of the salts?

    Ummm, irrigation and other factors... I answered my own question.

    Another question, does the high concentration basically lock up the soil moisture, and the plants and microbes basically dehydrate?
     
  6. treegal1

    treegal1 LawnSite Gold Member
    Posts: 3,911

  7. JDUtah

    JDUtah LawnSite Silver Member
    from UT
    Posts: 2,636

    The "Salts" we are talking about are not Sodium Chloride, they are the plant available inorganic nutrients that plants need. The ones that microbes "make" that the plant absorbs, the ones that are found in synthetic fertilizers like Ammonium Sulphate, Ammonium Nitrate, or Potasium Phosphate. The ones that "are in" (really just "are") the fertilizers. NaCl isn't in any fertilizers I know of, but no oceans by me and NaCl isn't much of a problem here, Out there in Florida on the other hand, you gotta know your NaCl stuff.
     
  8. Kiril

    Kiril LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 18,308

  9. Tim Wilson

    Tim Wilson LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 795

    This is usually a factor of extended use which correlates to Kiril's statement of overuse.

    I will probably find time in the future to post some microbial video on my website illustrating this.

    In the interim, you could likely illustrate this to yourself on a macro level if you were to find two similar grass/hay fields in the same region; one which has been grown chemically over the years; the other grown naturally. Provided they have similar soil types and moisture, it is most likely that when you dig into the chemical field, you will find much MUCH lower numbers of 'bugs' like rollie pollies, mites, rove beetles, other types of beetles, springtails, worms, etc, etc. These numbers, directly correlate to the numbers of microbes in the soil.

    My neighbor's fields compared to our's is a classic example of the outward effects of using chemicals. He has used chemicals for years while we have used none. Last year he did not get around to applying chemicals and his hay did not grow. There was, apparently, insufficient microbial life to sustain the growth naturally. Ours grew with no fertilizers, as usual.

    I do not use Elaine Ingham as a reference.

    David, Do you need to use such an abrasive and immature tone?
     
  10. JDUtah

    JDUtah LawnSite Silver Member
    from UT
    Posts: 2,636

    Thank you Kiril, I'lll review. No problem with it being Wikki.

    Tim, sorry for the tone. I'm just sick of reading everywhere that synthetic fertilizers polute soil and kill microbes (when used respoonsibly they don't IMO... even over time). I made some awesome connections last night and my zeal might have come out a little wrong.

    I partly use that tone to stirr emotion and discussion. It is a public forum and unfortunately controversy is what gets people attention. Especially controversy that challenges what people currently believe.
     
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