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Discussion in 'Irrigation' started by SPEEDSKI, Sep 23, 2011.
What you said;
BTW, those are awesome, does the pipe have to be flaired?
Never mind, I just found the product brochures. The stuff I learn on this site.
Harco also makes mechanical joint restraints
Wet Boots and Sprinkus....Thank You, that is the information I was looking for and needed.
I was messing around with my post and I tried to make sure to throw smiley on it. Perhaps you were doing the same thing? I guess I assumed you read the post and understood that one of the problems was having to glue under water. The PVC line to the pump I was talking about was a solid pvc line from the initial install with only glue joints. No unions, no mechanical joints and it enter the shore through a stone wall. The only way to pull the pump was to cut the line with the possibility of having to perform the work under water. Yes, it was originally a solvent weld and it held (all installed before the lake was filled), but when they tried to re-install the pump line (which was a 6" pvc case with the 3" pvc pressure line inside) which basically required them to try and glue a pipe inside another pipe.They ended up cutting the 6" back so they could glue the 3". The lake is now at the same level where the pipe enters the sleeve in the retaining wall. There is no way to move this connection up to make proper glue joint. I never have seen or be able to get a good seal trying to glue line sitting half way in water....so it was no surprise it ended up blowing out.
Maybe you were just playing around also, but I am just confused at your replies. We run on average of 5 service trucks and 3 install crews, been in business for 15 years and have done about every type and size of irrigation system except a G.C. I am not a newbie and I tried to explain the issue as good as I could. I am not known for my writing skills, so maybe I just assumed to much. Too bad we butted heads on this one.
As far as using something flexible, it is not a must. I have just seen some pumps installed with a 4" black, reinforced, but flexible hose which seems like a good idea to allow for some movement. Thanks again to Sprinkus and Wet Boots, great information.
It's always easier to say things outside the box and refer to 'textbook example' which almost always doesn't apply to re-world situations..
I have no experience with systems that require that much flow and large of diameter.
But if it was me...and these people came to me to and told me the other company isn't cutting it.. I think I would step up my game.. And my game means price and quality.. And if they can't handle that than they need to get back to the other company..
I'm here to do my job... and do it better then the others
Gasketed connections.. poly/ iron piping... thrust blocks.. The whole works
sprinkrus had a good reference to poly installation/repair that size
Mitchgo, I agree and that is how we do business. One of the reasons we stopped doing pumps, was we constantly got under bid. It was easier to exclude the pump and liabilty which is how we spec'd this job when we assumed the maintenance contract. We did a good job turning everything else around, so now we are being asked to put out this fire. We will do it right and if they do not go for what we recommend and price, we will not do the work. I learned a long time ago, once you touch someone's else's problems they become your problems.
Sprinkus definatley has it figured out. We used to run a HDD rig before the economy tanked, used to watch the gas guy's fuse HDPE pipe all the time and it is a cool process.
The lake on this job has a wall all the way around the lake so there is no shore line. So pulling to pump requires a boat and the liner around the lake is getting damaged. The liner gets torn when they try to pull this beast in to work on it, which is another reason this whole set up needs to be redone.
It would have been nice to have a VFD Suction Lift Pump Station on this site and it could have made things a lot easier.
Ditto. I believe ford meter box has similar type fittings.
for the OP's application, the simplest thing might be to get a gasketed iron elbow with the restraining ears, assuming he has to redo that 90-degree upward elbow
Ski, like the other guys posted - gasket flange type fittings are the way to join high demand high initial pressure systems.
I have had very good luck with HDPE pipe with fused couplings on several systems that were upwards of 800 gpm.
Also, you haven't mentioned what type of control is actually triggering the pump.
Is this set-up a VFD, constant pressure or an on demand?
Sounds to me that the initial pressure spike is causing problems. How is the control configured to address this?
Have you thought about dropping in a wet well so the pump is accessible regardless of water level? Initial cost would be a bit but future service is where the cost savings really add up.
The site is a 2-wire system using a Tucor TWC. So basically they ran the wire path to the Control Box (Franklin Electric) and it fires from a single station (LD100) decoder set up as the master valve in the program. The system is designed to run zones 10 gpm to 60 gpm, 177 zones total.
10hp is in a 6" pvc casing that is run to the shore wall and a 3" mainline is inside the casing, runs through the wall (basically mortared in), 90's up 10' to final grade. The mainline from the pump goes to 2" Galvanized, to a 2" Cash Acme Pressure Reducing Valve, then to the flow sensor and then to a 2.5" mainline to all the zones. Now the 6" just dangles off the main in the lake since they had to cut it to remove the pump and to glue it back, they just left a section of the 6" off.
The PRV cracked recently and we pulled it. We replaced all the galvanized with Red Brass pipe, but we removed the PRV. Our price for the PRV is $1700.00 and I am not sure why they put it on to begin with? We wanted to test the system with a pressure gauge on it without the PRV as we have an average of 70 psi operating pressure with out it. The pump runs around 110 GPM and it runs good with our program. We had to run all the zones, figure all the GPM per zone, and then set up the program to run multiple zones to stay around 100-120 GPM. No filtration at all right now, which is why I want to add the Amiad TAF 750 Automatic Filter.
It is almost like the pump was an after thought based on the huge variation on zone sizes. Is there something I am missing with the PRV? We could save the developer some money with out it. I know they may have installed it to try and not blow lines when a smaller zone was run, but that is hell on the pump since it is set up as an all or nothing pump start with no cycle stop controls.