Hond 24 or Kaw 23 ???

Discussion in 'Lawn Mowing' started by Dan1944, Sep 2, 2002.

  1. Dan1944

    Dan1944 LawnSite Member
    Posts: 147

    I will be getting my first ZTR in about a month and have narrowed it down to a Hustler mini Z, 52" cut. I have a choice of a 23 twin A/C Kaw or a 24 twin a/c Honda. Honda list's for 100.00 more. I do not know to much about the Honda twin's. I need some opinions (pro and con's) My dealer handles both.

    Thanks

    Dan the lawn care man
     
  2. 65hoss

    65hoss LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 6,360

    I have the 23 kawi, and its extremely powerful. Get it. Stay away from the bigger honda motors. Honda makes the best small motors but its hard to get support and parts for the larger ones. Oh, I'm not saying this from lack of experience with honda.
     
  3. SLS

    SLS LawnSite Bronze Member
    from Mars
    Posts: 1,540

    I don't know about the Honda twin cylinder engines as I have no experience with them.

    I do own a Kawasaki 23 hp however. It is on a Lazer Z that has just ticked over 800 hours...with absolutely NO problems. It has plenty of power for my applications too (residentials that go no longer than 10 days between cuts). It seems to be a very good engine. :)
     
  4. Bill Davis

    Bill Davis LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 397

    we had bad a bad experience with a bigger Honda motor at the farm so maybe 65 hoss is right, I have the 23 Kaw. on my Lazer and it is a beast, lots of power and its tough to bog it down. The 23 should be plenty of power for the 52 inch deck.
     
  5. dlandscaping

    dlandscaping LawnSite Senior Member
    from mass
    Posts: 835

    Go with kawi. Honda has great small engines under 10hp but over that i would stay away. Why don't you think other mower mfgs use honda engines in the 20hp range. Parts for those engines are $$. Good luck with your new machine.
     
  6. syncom2

    syncom2 LawnSite Member
    from Ohio
    Posts: 55

    Over the past three or four months here I've found it somewhat interesting (as well as confusing) about the standing preferences of the larger sized Honda engines vs. a Kawasaki or a Kohler. I have spoken with 7 or 8 factory reps and/or dealers of the Hustler line and only one (1) of the grouping has found favor with the Kawasaki, over the Honda. So what gives way to the real truth here guys and gals!?! As it's been somewhat settled in my mind today, I'm still nearly four months away from placing my January order for a Super mini Z. As for what gas power plant I'll want onboard, I dunno!?!? I hope by the time the new year rolls in that I will have read some concrete facts, or at least have digested some truthful (impartial) experiences of the pros and cons of each engine's history.
     
  7. TLS

    TLS LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 7,937

    23 hp Kawi max peak torque = 41 lb/ft or 55 Nm Torque Rating at 3600 RPM = 34 lb/ft or 46 Nm.


    24hp Honda max peak torque = 37 lb/ft or 50 Nm. Torque Rating at 3600 RPM = 34 lb/ft or 46 Nm.

    They are quite similar at 3600 RPM, but the Kawi is much stronger in the midrange. From personal demo experience, the Kawi 23 is a much stronger engine. The Kawi has a 5 cc advantage.

    If it were my money, I'd go with a Kawi. I'd like to see HONDA jump into the 25-30 hp race.

    These engine manufacturers need to realize that our power and torque is needed at 3600 RPM + . Not midrange or low end.
     
  8. 65hoss

    65hoss LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 6,360

    Syncom,
    So apparently you've been talking with people that sell not use motors. From us your getting real world experience not a sell job. Most people try to take Honda's great reputation and sell it as the best. I wouldn't disagree on certain areas. But the larger motors and the 36" and up comm'l mowing market was a very weak attempt by them.

    I bought a new Honda 36" a few years ago. I sold it to Scotlawncare with less than 100 hours on it. He was using it part time and all that year and the next year(2001) it spent more time down than it did up working. I'm a huge fan of smaller hondas, I own several.

    I have Kohler motors and kawi motors right now. All my Kohlers are running and have lots of hours on them without any problems. They just don't have the power of my Kawi's. My only problem with Kawi was parts avaliability. I spoke with several people at Kawi America, which one assured me they knew of their problems and were fixing them. That was last year and I haven't had anymore problems. Parts have become easier to get. Not that I've had much need for them, (knock on wood) I haven't had any real problems.
     
  9. ScotLawn

    ScotLawn LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 309

    Yes stay away from Honda motors over 10 hp. Hoss was right on the down time issue I had with my 13 hp Honda. the carbs suck. Mine always leaked and woud clog up soo easy it wasn't even funny. Even with clean air filters and fuel it would clog and spit and sputter all the time. Finding a parts dealer that has a good enough stock for engine parts is hard. Plus the price is expensive. To me any thing with the Honda name on it is going to be expensive to repair. I now own one honda 21" push mower and it's great. I'm glad Honda got out of the commercial walk behind market because there mower was ****. I also tested one of the hustler mowers with the honda motor and it seemed very weak compaired to the others.

    Scot
     
  10. syncom2

    syncom2 LawnSite Member
    from Ohio
    Posts: 55

    Dan, if I may so inquire of, why is it that you had narrowed down your choice of engine for the Hustler Mini Z between the Honda 24 and the Kawasaki 23? Maybe it's not locally available on your dealer's lot, or maybe it's the amount of available funds you have at hand, but I would think that the Kawasaki 25 would be the preferred choice. That is, if you're looking to go with a Kawasaki power plant. I've only been on Lawnsite snoopin' around for 7 months or so, but I do not ever recall reading that someone wished they had purchased a smaller engine for their new rig. Mower deck, yes, but engine… not.
    As I had earlier made mention of, I had been 90% convinced by the 'inside' boys to go with the Honda. But after reading thru some letters that have shared not so great experiences with the Honda engine, not only on this thread but others as well, I'm thinking more and more that the smoothness and quietness of the Honda engines I was told was so great were 'cos they were sittin' idle-cold in the garages… waiting on some expensive parts to arrive.
    By the way, what for prices have you been quoted for the Mini Z? I was (verbally) told that the spring '03 intro price was going to be right at 7k. Again, that was with the Honda 24 on a Super Z frame. I'm thinking I was quoted that the 25 Kawasaki was going to be an additional hundred over that 7k price. I've been 'window shopping' for the past three years now… and unless a new kid arrives on the block pretty soon, I am looking to purchase the Super Mini Z in the late winter, early spring time range.
     

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