How to make a sealer spray unit (275g)

Discussion in 'Seal Coating Forum' started by keepoffthegrass, Dec 24, 2005.

  1. nitro121

    nitro121 LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 380

    Actually I just talked to a guy from Pavement pro last week. I saw a trash pump system on Craigslist and had questions. He PM'd me and said he sprays emulsion or whatever it is through his trash pump then spreads sand afterwards and has been for years. Low overhead and he still charges premium price.

    Just can't tell his fellow "boardmembers" or they'd give him grief.

    Peace
     
  2. Coater

    Coater LawnSite Member
    from MI.
    Posts: 51

    That has to be the most ignorant thing I have ever heard! The sand would just roll out the first time a tire hit it. If I did it that way I'd be ashamed also, and wouldn't want to tell anyone that I cheat my customers that way. I'm sure he isn't a official Member unless he is lying on the application for membership but if he cheats his customers that way I'm sure he wouldn't mine lying on the application. This is one of the fly by night cons to make people think they are legit>>>>
     
  3. DJ Contracting

    DJ Contracting LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 485

    I have used the trash pump unit w/sand and it worked just fine now i talked to the two biggest seal coaters here and they both said that the sand only last so long and will wear of just like powder and that it is not very effective, however they still use it as do i just to cover my butt one of the owners is a good friend of mine and my supplier i had him look at some of my jobs and he was very supprised of the way they turned out and said it works fine. I can't comment on a 10g unit because i have never used one, so anybody that comments on something thay havn't used is like well it's just an opinion with out trying one.
     
  4. Coater

    Coater LawnSite Member
    from MI.
    Posts: 51

    I have no Problem with my sand turning to powder or lasting my two or three year warrantee.

    (((((I can't comment on a 10g unit because i have never used one, so anybody that comments on something they haven't used is like well it's just an opinion with out trying one)))))

    I agree 1000%! Someone who has never seen a seal job done correctly has no Ideal what they are talking about. They are just putting down black water and cheating the customer.
     
  5. WebMan

    WebMan LawnSite Member
    from D/FW TX
    Posts: 11

    Just to clarify this post: like any forum or " discussion board" the one mentioned here has participants on the "board" or forums that may use these junker "machines".
    Some people use them as storage units (which they work for to transfer concentrate without sand) but my company works with the association that runs that public "board" or forum as an allied-vendor member and no member of the "board of directors" of the association that sponsors the public forums there uses or would use one of these things for applying sealer for customers. :nono:

    I just thought I would clarify the use of the term "board members". There may be a "forum or "board" participant or two who use the machines (in fact some have said they do and explained how to build them on the forum or "bulletin board") but not to confuse the participants on a public forum like this one where any contractor can participate or be a "member" of the forum/board or more accurately stated; a "forum participant", with the actual "board members" or contractor-members of the association who provides those public forums/"board" or the organization's "board" of directors", all of whom I happen to know personally as an allied-member company owner (and host of several of the board's director-member's web sites).
     
  6. DJ Contracting

    DJ Contracting LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 485

    Lets see i have a GOOD friend that has one of the biggest seal coat companies in this area and my supplier and yes i have been with him while seal coating. ((((Have you been with anybody that uses a trash pump seal coat system, if not than you can't give an accurate opinion right, it's like commenting on a Shindaiwa line trimmer when you have an Echo trimmer it just your opinion.)))) And everybody has one, as far as putting down black water i mix mine at 35 % water to 65% material hardly water.
     
  7. Coater

    Coater LawnSite Member
    from MI.
    Posts: 51

    Yes, I can because the machinery just don't add up. Do you have a hydraulic or chain driven agitator if not then you can not mix emulsion sealer the correct way. You can not mix a 6 LB. of sand per gal mix without a powered agitator. The thick material with additives could not spray with a trash pump. You can not continue to agitate while applying sealer without a powered agitator. The trash pump will only allow you to spray or circulate material but not both. When you tell me that the biggest sealer contractor in your area thinks sand is useless and that he can't keep in the material after applied tells a lot about him, to those who know the truth!
     
  8. WebMan

    WebMan LawnSite Member
    from D/FW TX
    Posts: 11

    Knowing the properties of Tarmax well, how do you keep your machine agitating while adding it? I think this is a funny post because having watched Tarmax being added it thickens up sealer very quickly (faster than any other additive they say) when added and if the agitator is not turning fast enough will produce "strings" of rubber in the mix because it's not mixed well. I've seen strainer baskets where the contractor I was taking photos of pulled out handfuls of the stringy rubber stuff cusssing the whole time because his employees weren't mixing it in right. So if you are saying you add Tarmax to a unit that has to be sitting still when adding material it just can't be so. You'd just have a ball of rubber in there ar be spraying globs of it.
    That's the main problem with these things. A trash pump will work to "pump". I have seen it, on an agitated tank and spraying sand. The contractor said he replaced the pump yearly or more often depending on how busy he was. But the tank was steel and he built the hydraulic agitation system for it. I've got customers with the Equipt units with the poly tanks that are nothing like these things and other customers with almost every brand you can think of.
    But the analogy about the mowers isn't correct in another post. With a good mix tank anything is possible. You can use most anything to spray a good sealer mix after it leaves the tank, or you can carry it in buckets, or you can put it in drums on dollies and carry it (saw that once) and you can brush or spray or whatever. But the secret is in the quality of the sealer mix in the tank. I have built way too many web sites for sealcoaters who all stressed the same things about the quality of the "mix design". The right sealer + right additives in the right % and right silica sand (and if somebody's sand is turning to powder it's because they are using the wrong sand). But the quality of the material is the bottom line.
    Not one of my many sealcoating customers has ever wanted us to mention they were better because they had a XYZ machine. Some wanted photos of their new $20K unit on the first page but they didn't "go on" about it. Some guys have had me emphasize how they always brush, others that they always spray, each claiming the advantages of both and mentioning the disadvantages of the other, and some do 1 coat of each.
    But the constant is they all talk a lot about their "mix". Why the product they use and the stuff they mix with it is better than the others in their area (and I've done them from coast to coast so the material brands change a lot on everything but the underlying story is always the same "better sealer+better additives+better sand or boiler slag= they have better sealcoat than their competitors. And I looked at those machines in the link and what was mentioned about DOT is right. That "cage" frame around them means they are made to be stacked inside trucks. I have seen the ones that don't have that & they are much heavier. You might have a problem if their was a spill or getting a trailer licensed if that was on it or whatever depending on what they look at in your state. And remember, as a post I was reading elsewhere said today, people today are LOOKING for people to sue. So if their was a fender bender but a lawyer figured out you had something non-DOT all of a sudden that client would have a million dollar injury somehow requiring years of treatment...and there goes your insurance cost, IF anybody else will take you.
    This whole tote-tank sprayer thing just seems like cheap units doing cheap work that might get you into trouble. So why risk it? There is a free magazine called PaverMarket that's nothing but classified ads. This isn't the best time (fall-winter when people are hungry) but you can always find decent "name brand machines for a bargain in there if you don't want to go new.
    I had a client of mine buy a brand new $17,000+ machine and 6 months later was canceling his web service (gave notice) and had me put the machine on there for $10K negotiable used twice. I told him he was crazy for selling it for that but he had a partner deal with a in-law or something but he got a BIG promotion at his "day job" somewhere else but had to move NOW so the machine had to go-regardless because he had to be out of business and out of town by the end of the month, I think it went for $8,500 but you can find some great deals if you look around. No need to risk problems when you can find a workable machine for that same price...it might not spray so it's selling cheap, well then go to Tractor Supply and rig up a trash pump. But have the tank that will mix good stuff.
     
  9. ssupercoolss

    ssupercoolss LawnSite Member
    Posts: 24

    you can go sealcoating with one of these things. i am here to tell you that no matter how much you recirculate this tank, it will never mix the stuff thats laying in the corners. never. saying you dont need sand in sealer is like saying you dont need blades on a lawn mower. and if you are out there sealing with out sand, you shouldnt be. you would be up for a huge law suit if you were to go do some commercial work with no sand. its like a skating rink when wet. this is the worst set up i have ever seen, and its target market is for people that just dont know any better. you have to have a full sweep aggitator to mix sealer properly.
     
  10. DJ Contracting

    DJ Contracting LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 485


    So who's your monkey that stays there and agitates the material while you spray. (((you can't tell me with a hand agitator the the material keeps agitating after you stopped the initial agitation))) You make it sound like once you have applied you'll never have to go back and reseal again where i'm from the car's,truck's,suv's, ALL WEAR the sealer off INCLUDING the sand :hammerhead: TRUST me your not doing anything different, look closely at your jobs it does and will wear off that's why we have to reseal parking lots and driveways :dizzy: i'm sure your one of those that will guarantee your work for ten years, throw a snowplow on that parking lot/driveway during the winter and see how long it last. :hammerhead:
     

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