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Hustler Super Z - problems with model

Discussion in 'General Industry Discussions' started by greenology, Oct 4, 2012.

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  1. TNGrassCutter

    TNGrassCutter LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,321

    Is that one of the reasons they fill tractor tires with fluid? And for the guy with 40 mowers, he probably never used one, if I had that much business I sure wouldn't be sitting on one all day.
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  2. Ridin' Green

    Ridin' Green LawnSite Fanatic
    Male, from Michigan
    Posts: 12,851

    I agree with puppy & TN GC about the weight. Heavier is better for both traction and ride. The one area that extra weight is not your friend, is on hillsides when the weight is above the midline of the machine giving you a higher COG.

    I'm old enough to remember when cars were cars. Even though suspension technology has moved forwards by leaps and bounds, those old "heavy" cars of the '60's and 70's rode worlds better than later cars, especiallly those like todays full sized so called "heavy" cars do. Is just common sense. More weight will require more force to move, and more weight will absorb more impact before moving.
     
  3. puppypaws

    puppypaws LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 8,836

    I'm 63 yrs. old and been on far too much farm equipment not to realize that a shorter wheel base and/or lighter weight gives a much worse ride.

    If a person is looking after a business with 40 mowers running, he probably has no idea of what they each look like, much less how they ride. The reason we've put fluid in tractor tires for years is to put the power on the ground by reducing slippage, and the added benefit is forcing the tractor to hug the ground and lessen the jolt of bumps in the field, which in return makes it ride much smoother.
     
  4. TNGrassCutter

    TNGrassCutter LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,321

    Yes I know why we put fluid in tractor tires. I was giving real slow something to ponder.
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
  5. Realslowww

    Realslowww LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,527

    Puppy there are people out there who know the limitations of these mowers or any mower better than you, Your opinion is very valid and much more valid than mine but you only mow the same property for the most part week end and week out. A person who mows alot of varieing types of terrain is more qualified to make a accessment over you.

    Do not get me wrong your point is very valid, on the other note a dealer who has 100's of these units out in the field is very qualified to make a point better than anybody if he listens to his customers.

    He just made the point that he heard from a few of his big customers who use both the old style and new style that the old was plusher stock from the reports in the field he was hearing.

    On the point of weight you should take a physics class,weight is your enemy. It allows more energy to be transferred to the rider and the faster you go the more the heavier unit will beat the rider in rough terrain.

    As you add speed it becomes more appearant weight is your enemy, My old 300 pound XR 650 would never blitz whoops or torn up terrain even close to my 225 pound Cr 500 even with modern suspension added to the 650 why because it weighs 75 more pounds.

    Now you can have a better equiped suspension package on the heavier machine and it may ride better but all things being equal with design taken into consideration light is better for transmitting less impact to rider period!

    You are right about the chasses longness helping but I picked up on my 5 minute demo of the new Super that the ride on the newer Super was more solid with less give and the flex forks were making the unit much more livable.

    I wonder how much air tires would help?
     
  6. Ridin' Green

    Ridin' Green LawnSite Fanatic
    Male, from Michigan
    Posts: 12,851

    You simply have this all backwards bro. We aren't talking about a small weight difference, but going very fast as in the case of your dirt bikes. Weight is your friend, not your enemy for what we are talking about here, and any physics teacher will be on our side, not yours. Weight absorbs more energy, and will make the machine last longer in part due to that fact. It willl also make the machine ride better, not worse. Get on a 1200lb mower and go across a regular hay field at speed, then get on one like a Deere 997 and do it again. The heavier machine will ride better, and it's not simply because of the wheels and tires on the 997.

    Better yet, get on a standard Honda sport bike in the 600CC class and run it down a rough paved road, then get a on a Goldwing and drive down the same stretch of rough paved road. If lighter were better, don't you think all the highway tourer's would be asking the motorcycle mau's to make lighter touring bikes, not heavier?
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2012
  7. puppypaws

    puppypaws LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 8,836

    If you are giving me a class on physics, explain how it is possible to feel virtually no bumps in terrain when driving a 55 ton (110,000 lbs.) self-propelled howitzer in comparison to getting beat to death on the same terrain in what would be considered a very large truck by truck standards, but a lightweight when comparing to the tracked howitzer. Now remember, the howitzer has no (zero) suspension, and the truck has very adequate suspension.

    This is heavy weight machine that rides better versus a lighter weight machine, explain this in a physics definition that will help me see what you are speaking of. Now, remember your statement is: "On the point of weight you should take a physics class, weight is your enemy. It allows more energy to be transferred to the rider and the faster you go the more the heavier unit will beat the rider in rough terrain."

    This should be very easy for you to explain in physics terminology since the howitzer weighs 110,000 lbs. and the truck weighs 40,000 lbs, especially when saying weight transfers more energy to the rider. If this is actually the case, a 110,000 lb. vehicle should ride far worse than a 40,000 lb. vehicle, but yet this is not the case...Explain why not?
     
  8. GMLC

    GMLC LawnSite Platinum Member
    Posts: 4,353

    Lets try to get back to the OP's problem here. IMO the long wheel base is beating him to death like being on a seesaw. The rear tires almost come off the ground a few times in those videos. In this case I feel a shorter wheel base mower would be better like his old mowers that do the same property with no problems.
     
  9. puppypaws

    puppypaws LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 8,836

    Long wheel base, short wheel base, it really makes no difference, on a property such as this you slow down to a point where you can ride the highs and lows like a boat going up and over a swell.

    There is honestly a very simple fix for this problem, when too rough, slow down. I would take bets there is absolutely nothing wrong with the mower.

    I have about 1/2 acre with the same problem, except probably a little worse, and I have to slow down to the point of crawling through the ruts, I mean virtually stopping all together, and then easing through each one individually.
     
  10. TLS

    TLS LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 7,940

    I still think it's the rear tire pressure.

    A good quality analog 0-15psi gauge is necessary.

    There is a HUGE difference in ride between 8 and 12 psi.

    Maybe these OTR tires are stiffer riding than Carlisle's ?
     
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