ICPI Level II

Discussion in 'Hardscaping' started by Total Landscape Solutions, Feb 18, 2008.

  1. Total Landscape Solutions

    Total Landscape Solutions LawnSite Member
    Posts: 190

    Anyone taken the plunge, or planning to, go to level 2 yet. All of my clients here have never heard of ICPI. While I abide by most of the guidelines, and the credibility has certainly helped close contracts, I can't see where a customer would care if I was level 1 or level 2 certified.
    Just wondering if anyone learned anything worth applying in the field in their level 2 studies.
     
  2. Paver Gangster

    Paver Gangster LawnSite Member
    Posts: 145

    Don't waste your time.

    The ICPI level 2 course selection is lame, the program rules are a shambles, and it's just an excuse for them to take more of your money. The problem the ICPI is having right now is that the ICPI class is the ICPI's #1 revenue generator, and while they were raking in the dough with classes averaging 70-80 contractors 2 years ago, with things being a little tighter, and the market oversaturated, those numbers are more like 30-40 per class, and this is just another way for them to try and squeeze out extra revenue.

    Based on conversations I have had, there is little interest from other ICPI contractors in the program, and frankly homeowners aren't going to give a shite whether you are Level I or II.

    I think the original idea was to KEEP UP your certificate, you had to complete X amount of credits in 5 years; unsuprisingly, that was dropped. I have a feeling this program will get the finger as well, in typical ICPI fashion.

    I don't want to discourage anyone from furthering their studies of paver installation, but I think the level 2 program is plain stupid and poorly executed.
     
  3. John Zaprala

    John Zaprala LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 283

    I'm not pursuing the Level II for the same reasons. I feel that most customers are more impressed by an impressive portfolio, reputation and customer references than the fact you're a level II installer. Not many customers have heard of ICPI unless you bring it up or another contractor prior to you has to the customer. I think continuing education is essential to being competitively priced and efficient production times as well. I wondered why certain manufacturer's last year claimed we should continue education, yet this year say it isn't AS important as it was last year. Sounds like some red tape if you ask me. I recall them drilling the contractors last year of the importance of continuing education then ICPI classes are dropped this year from a certain convention. I just think some manufacturer's should be having these classes and they should setting the industry standards. I know Cambridge pavers has something like this. It just makes sense to me for the manufacturer to raise the bar, but they're in the business of selling the most pavers possible, not teaching. Not to rant, I do appreciate what I learn at the seminars at conventions, but what's a spec. this year sometimes contradicts itself the next year.
     
  4. Paver Gangster

    Paver Gangster LawnSite Member
    Posts: 145

    Just to add a few thoughts . .

    The ICPI level 2 classes seem more to be happy-go-lucky photo slides presentations or "read an article online and take a 5 question quiz" than actual classes with real world information (the raised patio installation program for example is horrible, and does not even touch on things like flowable fill or unbalanced fill, which you kinda need to know before building one).

    They would be better served to have programs like ICPI Raised Patio Installer and ICPI Permeable Paver Installer and ICPI Business Professional certificates instead, with half day programs for each. For example, a homeowner who is looking for a contractor to put in a PICP driveway is going to be much more impressed with an "ICPI Certified Permeable Paver Installer" than some bollocks "Level II Certified Installer" malarkey. Homeowners are marks for fancy titles.

    Anyway, thats my 2 cents. I think any contractor that pays the enrollment fee for this had best save their receipt.
     
  5. ultimate paverguy

    ultimate paverguy LawnSite Member
    Posts: 4

    ICPI is not only a Joke but the biggest waste of $300 or wahtever they charge. Hane been in this game a long time. Have spoken at seminars etc. Saw every mower jockey i know take the class pay some money and go around claiming to be a pro becuase of this (icpi certified on card, trucks). I will never be a part of anything to do with icpi for this reason. Even saw a guy go through whatever bs they make you go through and became an instructor. Needless to say he still subbed all his work to me because he still had no idea.
     
  6. ultimate paverguy

    ultimate paverguy LawnSite Member
    Posts: 4

    ICPI is not only a Joke but the biggest waste of $300 or whatever they charge. Have been in this game a long time. Have spoken at seminars etc. Saw every mower jockey i know take the class pay some money and go around claiming to be a pro because of this (icpi certified on card, trucks). I will never be a part of anything to do with icpi for this reason. Even saw a guy become an instructor without being able to lay 100 sq ft.
     
  7. ESVA

    ESVA LawnSite Member
    Posts: 3

    icpi should have 1 day hands on , instead of 2 days sitting on your ass. Almost as bad as driver improvement class.:drinkup:
     
  8. amscapes03

    amscapes03 LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 398

    After 9 years of building stone walls, paver walks and patios i figured what the heck, may as well check it out. so last winter with no snow to plow i ventured off to portland maine to get my ICPI Level I certification. Big disappointment! If it wasn't for the guys in the crowd sharing their thoughts and experiences my time spent would have been a complete waste. As for the $300, i'm just glad it was a write-off or i would have felt completely taken.
     
  9. John Zaprala

    John Zaprala LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 283

    I agree with the fact I get more from the Q & A parts of MOST of the seminars, not just ICPI, but other seminars as well. I think the best information is coming from contractors in the industry and not from someone who passed the instructor exam... These forums and contractor roundtables are where you will find more practical solutions for the everyday construction issues that arise.
     

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