Imprelis Discussion - it's damage, Dupont's Claim Process, Lawsuits filed, Experience

Discussion in 'Homeowner Assistance Forum' started by Starbuy, Feb 27, 2012.

  1. cindyb

    cindyb LawnSite Senior Member
    from KY
    Posts: 354

    Guess this is a question for the attorney's. Toxic soil and the future if it is going to last 19 years in the ground.

    http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/541022/house_counsel_come_clean_about_lots_toxic_soil/

    Do we have to do a disclosure if we sell? Tell the neighbors our Imprelis is heading their way? This whole thing is making me sick thinking of what its doing to the soil, plants and animals. This article is kinda similar.

     
  2. Starbuy

    Starbuy LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 335

    The above information from Cindy has excellent information, albeit very disturbing. Most counties will no doubt be getting a lot of Imprelis damaged property owners going before the tax appeals board to have their property taxes lowered due to the damage. I'm glad I've retained a good law firm. The future ramifications that may affect me finacially if I try to sell my home is something DuPont's direct resolution process does not address at all.

    Here's a photo someone provided on an arborist site that I also belong to which shows Imprelis associated damage on a Honeylocust tree branch. Strange tumor like knots forming. This is similar to what the OSU extension office has shown as an example of the damage occuring on some deciduous tree branches. If you see this you'll have a better idea now what it has been associated with.

    Imprelis damaged Honeylocust.jpg
     
  3. cindyb

    cindyb LawnSite Senior Member
    from KY
    Posts: 354

    Bigger.

    Kinda looks like the gall knots from little wasps.

    cimage2012_05n4322_w720.jpg
     
  4. Starbuy

    Starbuy LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 335

    Here's a photo of a deformed viburnum bloom that never turned white this year (the whole hedge looks like this and this never happened in any year since it was planted). This is adjacent to the Imprelis treated yard. Something is happening to so many plants. As someone else described this situation "Imprelis is the BP oil spill for half the U.S. states" while another described it as "DuPont's Imprelis is the Katrina to our land".

    Not sure if the photo appeared so I'll add it again.
     
  5. Starbuy

    Starbuy LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 335

    Having trouble uploading photos. Sorry, no viburnum photo.
     
  6. rlitman

    rlitman LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,540

    Wow, I'm just reading this thread, and it is indeed scary. Glad I'm not affected.

    I'm just adding a reply to clarify a few misconceptions I've noticed along this interesting read.

    Half life doesn't directly refer to how long it lasts in the soil.
    In the case of the 19 year half life, it would mean that half of the chemical would remain after 19 years! After 38 years, a quarter of the chemical would still be found, and after 57 years, 1/8th would still be remaining.

    So the half life is not a measure of a chemical's longevity, but rather its rate of decay. If you follow the math, it implies that some amount of the chemical will be around forever, however eventually it will be in concentrations below a concerning threshold, and after that, it will eventually be below a testable level.

    That sounds really terrible, but it isn't quite that bad. That 19 years is in an anaerobic environment. While you may encounter an anaerobic environment in certain gardening situations (such as in the bottom of a compost pile), it would not be in a tree's root zone. A root zone must be aerobic for a plant to survive, so we can safely assume that the 1 year half life is the number you should be thinking about.

    Again, to be clear, a 1 year half life does not mean that it will be gone in one year. It means that the chemical is reduced by half each year.

    This is all assuming laboratory conditions. In the real world, I would expect some chemical to migrate. Perhaps through migration of water horizontally, or vertically. I'm not sure what happens to the chemical after uptake in plants. Some chemicals move through evaporation, although it appears that the vapor pressure of aminocyclopyrachlor is pretty low (this may not be true for its methyl ester formulation though).
     
  7. rlitman

    rlitman LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,540

    Activated charcoal doesn't neutralize toxins. It adsorbs them. Think of it as a kind of sponge. It has a large capacity for holding onto all sorts of organic chemicals with a pretty tight grip, and doesn't easily let go of them.
    This makes it useful, because it can grab a chemical before a plant gets a hold of it, but it will slowly release that all back to the environment eventually.

    The problem is that activated charcoal will adsorb everything that it encounters, and will itself have no more capacity to hold onto things in short order. That, and applying it directly to your lawn won't put it in the right place to soak up stuff that's down in the root zone. I just don't see how it would help, but I also don't see how it would hurt.
     
  8. cindyb

    cindyb LawnSite Senior Member
    from KY
    Posts: 354

    Hi Rlitman, sounds like you have a good scientific understanding of what's happening, thanks for weighing in. Question. My Weeping Willow is dying quickly and dropping its leaves. When the wind catching them, of course they head into the neighbors yards and gardens. Any chance they are carrying toxins? This tree had mutated leaves last summer (3 leaves growing into one).
     
  9. rlitman

    rlitman LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,540

    Just a good general scientific understanding. Nothing specific to your situation, or the chemicals in this thread.

    That being said, DuPont has put a warning on the chemical's label to not use clippings as mulch, because the chemical is still "available" in the compost, so it seems to me that DuPont has answered this question. Yes, those leaves probably are carrying an active form of the herbicide.

    Edit:
    And because of that, the dying plants themselves will remove some of the chemical from your soil, helping it go away faster.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2012
  10. cindyb

    cindyb LawnSite Senior Member
    from KY
    Posts: 354

    You are right, if its in the grass its in the leaves and all of the pine needles and pinecones are going in my fish ponds. Doing more than the 10% weekly water changes.
     

Share This Page