Is my price to high?

Discussion in 'Hardscaping' started by CSLC, Apr 5, 2014.

  1. DVS Hardscaper

    DVS Hardscaper LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 6,412


    I dunno I would say that, unless you looked up the code(s) for the municipality for which this man's prospective job is in. The county I live in has stricter codes for steps than the county adjacent to it. True story.

    It's better to make a blanket statement and advise the guy/others to "check the local codes for where the job is".
     
  2. 1idejim

    1idejim LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 9,335

    The UBC describes landing specifications as:

    Landings shall have a width of not less than the width of the stair ... and a length measured in the direction of travel of not less than 36" - UBC 1003.3.1.6 & UBC 3.3.1.7

    Building Code Citations for Stairway Platforms & Landings

    Some different stair landing code or standard examples include:

    Stairway Landings. There shall be a floor or landing at the top and bottom of each stairway. The width of landings shall not be less than the width of stairways they serve. Every landing shall have a minimum dimension measured in the direction of travel equal to the width of the stairway. Such dimension need not exceed 48 inches (1219 mm) where the stairway has a straight run. - IBC Stairs Code 1009.4

    Stairways must have a landing, top and bottom, equal to the width of stairs. The minimum dimension measured in the direction of travel shall equal to the width of the stairway, but need not exceed 48” where the stairway has a straight run. Doors opening onto a landing shall not reduce the landing to less than one-half the required width. When fully open, the door shall not project more than 7” into a landing . - Alameda CA Residential Stairway, Handrail, and Guardrail Minimum Code Requirements.

    Stairways that will not be a permanent part of the structure on which construction work is being performed shall have landings of not less than 30 inches (76 cm) in the direction of travel and extend at least 22 inches (56 cm) in width at every 12 feet (3.7 m) or less of vertical rise. - OSHA 1926.1052(a)(1)

    There shall be a floor or landing at the top and bottom of each stairway. The width of landings shall not be less than the width of stairways they serve. Every landing shall have a minimum dimension measured in the direction of travel equal to the width of the stairway. Such dimension need not exceed 48 inches (1 219 mm) where the stairway has a straightway has a straight run. - Florida Building Code, 1009.4 Stairway Landings

    Exceptions:
    1. Aisle stairs complying with Section 1025.11.
    2. Doors opening onto a landing shall not reduce the landing to less than one-half the required width. When fully open, the door shall not project more than 7 inches (178 mm) into a landing. - Florida Building Code, 1009.4 Stairway Landings

    And though it should go without saying, the recommended stairway landing or platform width is equal to the stairway width. The platform or walking surface can be wider, of course, such as occurs when stairs end at a balcony, deck, or walkway.

    Landing requirements for access ramps are discussed separately at RAMPS, ACCESS

    Is No Stair Top Landing Required if Door Opens Away?

    We often find older one and two family homes at which a door opens directly onto a stairway without a top landing platform. Some opine that if the door swings into a room, away from that top step, the hazard is reduced and a landing is not required. In fact a landing on both sides of a door is recommended for practical reasons and is required by some codes: Here is how the Florida Building Code describes landings at doors:

    There shall be a floor or landing on each side of a door. Such floor or landing shall be at the same elevation on each side of the door. Landings shall be level except for exterior landings, which are permitted to have a slope not to exceed 1 unit vertical in 50 units’ horizontal (2-percent slope). - Florida Building Code 1008.1.4 2007

    Landings shall have a width not less than the width of the stairway or the door, whichever is the greater. Doors in the fully open position shall not reduce a required dimension by more than 7 inches (178 mm). When a landing serves an occupant load of 50 or more, doors in any position shall not reduce the landing to less than one-half its required width. Landings shall have a length measured in the direction of travel of not less than 44 inches (1 118 mm). - Florida building Code, 1008.1.5 Landings at doors.

    During its swing, any door in a means of egress shall leave unobstructed at least one half of the required width of an aisle, corridor, passageway, or landing, nor project more than 7 inches (178 mm) into the required width of an aisle, corridor, passageway or landing, when fully open. Doors shall not open immediately onto a stair without a landing. The landing shall have a width at least equal to the width of the door. See Section 1027 for door swing in Group E occupancies. - Florida Building Code 1008.1.8.8

    International Building Code 2000 (BOCA, ICBO, SBCCI)

    1003.3.3.4 Stairway landings. There shall be a floor or landing at the top and bottom of each stairway. The width of landings shall not be less than the width of stairways they serve. Every landing shall have a minimum dimension measured in the direction of travel equal to the width of the stairway. Such dimension need not exceed 48 inches (1219 mm) where the stairway has a straight run.

    As you can see in our photo at left, a door is opening out over a stairwell and no landing is provided.

    Because the ergonomics of a person placing their hand on a doorknob and opening the door tends to guide where they put their foot in stepping out and down, the absence of a landing here is a serious trip and fall hazard that is prohibited by building codes and by good construction practice.

    Model Building Code Stairways & Landings Specifications - E.G. California Building Code

    Landings must have a width and a dimension measured in the direction of travel not less than the width of the stairway. Doors in the fully open position shall not reduce a required dimension by more than 7 inches.

    All exterior doors shall have a landing immediately on the exterior side. These landings shall be as wide as the door and a minimum of 36 inches in the direction of travel. These landings must be no more than 8 inches below the interior floor level. If the door swings out over the landing this dimension is 1 inch maximum.

    An interior door at the top of a flight of stairs need not have a landing at the top of the stairs, provided the door swings away from the stairs. [37]

    http://m.inspectapedia.com/?url=http://inspectapedia.com/Stairs/Stair_Landings.htm#2943
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  3. BMB Hardscape

    BMB Hardscape LawnSite Member
    Posts: 39

    NAHHH, not too high at all.....
    Thanks for your price, I'm looking at that job tomorrow!
     
  4. alldayrj

    alldayrj LawnSite Gold Member
    Posts: 3,768

    Lol thats hilarious. I would add 500 brian just to prove a point
     
  5. danieljoohn18

    danieljoohn18 LawnSite Member
    Posts: 24

    I cannot understand why people on here are not sure of their pricing?? If you are in business you should know what you need to make and know what your time is worth. I find it absolutely ridicules that people ask for help on pricing. This is how the industry gets a bad name. If you claim to be in business, act like it. Know your business!
     
  6. danieljoohn18

    danieljoohn18 LawnSite Member
    Posts: 24

    Not meaning to be harsh but I am so tired of going out on estimates and having to explain to customers that cheaper is not always better. You get what you pay for. When someone does not know how to price a job, they are setting themselves and the customer up for a disaster. I cant tell you how many jobs I have taken on because the guy before me did not know the business and low balled the bid and did not have the funds or know how to complete. This business is not that hard.
     
  7. DVS Hardscaper

    DVS Hardscaper LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 6,412

    I disagree.

    The business is my easy.

    You need business instinct. 85% of the people doing hardscapes do not have any business instinct.

    You need to be very sharp.

    A grasp on numbers is a must.

    If you want an easy business then I suggest opening an ice cream stand
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
  8. danieljoohn18

    danieljoohn18 LawnSite Member
    Posts: 24

    I'm sorry that you disagree but the landscape business is not that complicated.
     
  9. DVS Hardscaper

    DVS Hardscaper LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 6,412

    This is not the "landscape" forum.

    For some of us - it isn't complicated.

    For others - it is. This is not a business that is for everybody. It's extremely competitive, with an average national net profit being 8% according to a statistic from a seminar by a well known speaker. It's one of the lowest profit margins of all the facits of the green industry. If you don't know what you're doing - you'll never make it past the 5-6 yr mark in this industry, in which......a majority DO NOT.

    A majority of the people that enter into construction trade businesses are tradesmen, not business men. They're really good at their trade and do great work - but they lack the business mindset. Business isn't for everybody.

    Most people are not meant to be in business for themselves. I have a best friend that falls into this category.

    One example - I know a guy that had a great grounds management business in the Pittsburgh area. Multiple crews. Professional business location, he was on fire. Well, he started getting into hardscapes. A few years later he sold his maintenance business so he could do hardscapes full time. I told him that he made a big mistake. about 20 months later.......he was filing for bankruptcy.
     
  10. danieljoohn18

    danieljoohn18 LawnSite Member
    Posts: 24

    I would like to know who the well known speaker is because that statistic is BS. I have been in business 12yrs and not once have my net profits dropped below 22%.
     

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