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Is Roundup Necessary Before Cultivation for Rennovation?

Discussion in 'Turf Renovation' started by DavidNJ, Feb 26, 2011.

  1. DavidNJ

    DavidNJ LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 514

    Renovating 30-50k sqft. A lot of it looks like the pictures below. The soil cultivator on the Toro Dingo should bury all the weeds and odd patches of grass.

    However, should it be killed first with Roundup? Tenacity or Imprellis will be used as a pre-emergent. The seed is Lebanon Turf Winning Colors Tall Fescue Mix.



  2. RigglePLC

    RigglePLC LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 12,215

    I say yes--use the Roundup--You many have some tough weeds that are difficult to clean up in your new lawn. Veronica comes to mind. Burying weeds or their seed, or cutting them in little pieces with a tiller may not be enough. You might as well take the opportunity to get a clean start. I think I see moss. I don't think Roundup will help for moss, but maybe someone has experience in this matter and can advise you. Burying clumps of grass will not get rid of all of it. Get a clean start. It will make the tilling much easier also. You don't want to end up raking up 1000 pounds of grass clumps. JMHO.
  3. DavidNJ

    DavidNJ LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 514

    Roundup kills growing weeds, but what about seeds? If Imprellis or Tenacity is going to be used as a pre-emergent, and the soil cultivator will bury the existing weeds, will Roundup add any benefit?
  4. RigglePLC

    RigglePLC LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 12,215

    Roundup will do nothing for weed seeds. I have no experience with Tenacity. I feel that burying weeds will kill some, but some types, especially perennials will just sprout up through the soil, roots and rhizomes are the main problem. I feel that tillage will do nothing for quackgrass, violets, and nutsedge-they have rhizomes. A pre-emergent won't help either.
  5. StoneFaced

    StoneFaced LawnSite Member
    Posts: 201

    Will Tenacity or Imprellis know the difference between what is weed seed and Tall Fescue?

    I'm not familiar w/ either, but some pre emergents are effective for upwards of 90-120 days.
  6. DavidNJ

    DavidNJ LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 514

    Yes, and I believe both have roles as both pre-emergent and post-emergent.

    The underlying issue is: if weed seeds are the issue, will Roundup really be a useful if used in addition?
  7. TopNotchMowing

    TopNotchMowing LawnSite Member
    Posts: 61

    Tenacity isn't labeled for residential use yet, so I'd look for something different.
  8. DavidNJ

    DavidNJ LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 514

    The residential labeled 8oz size will be out this month; the larger size gets the label in June/July.
  9. humble1

    humble1 LawnSite Silver Member
    from MA
    Posts: 2,499

    Why not kill it, flail blade dethatch it, remove the debris, aerate it, spread seed, then slice seed in two directions, or you could hydroseed over it as well. When you rototill you will also bring seed to the surface, the sod clumps will decompose creating heat that will burn the root ends on the new grass, plus hand raking 50k f-that. As far as a pre em if you get a good strong stand of grass in early you would only need to use drive as a post emergent crabgrass control on spots and also gets a lot of weeds.
  10. DavidNJ

    DavidNJ LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 514

    I thought there might be a nitrogen depletion, but heat at a sufficient level to be an issue?

    The plan...starting soon as I can get a dry day is Roundup, soil cultivator, and then slice seed in two directions with Lebanon Turf Winning Colors tall fescue.

    The Imprelis or Tenacity would be to prevent competition with the seed. I'm considering getting some plastic 55gal drums and soaking the seed for 12 hours before planting.

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