Hey all! First off this is a great site. Everyone has there own opinion, but based on that you can gather all information you need to form your own opinion. Sorry about the long post, I can't seem to attach my document??? (why is that?) Alittle bit about me and my situation. I'm starting up a property maintainence company, and have no idea what my actual costs are so I have had to estimate everything. I live just north of Kingston, Ontario so all figures are based on the canadian dollar and economey. I have all my equipement purchased and paid for, but want to upgrade everything to commercial quality. So in reality my starting overhead is very low, but I want to price everything in terms of allowing for expansion for my company. I have a full time job 3 days a week, lol, but starting out part time I want to charge for full time prices. (NO LOW BALLING) This way should I start doing this full time, my present customers will not be in shock when I were to adjust my rates. Presently $60.00 seems to be the going rate around here. I will be doing yard work, pressure washing, window cleaning, snow removal, garbage removal,tree work etc., basicly anything a customer needs in regards to outdoor work. Attached to this post is my pricing and costs. Could you look over it and tell me if it looks right? Is it comparable with your business? Do my rates look right? Any suggerstions? Any opinions? What do you do about overtime? do you operate at a loss? Thanks for everyones insight and should you wish to disscuss anything in private, you can email me at firstname.lastname@example.org PRICING Billable hours Middle of April to Middle of November (7 months) spring clean ups, regular maintenance, fall clean up 7 months x 4 weeks x 40hours per week = 1120 billable hours Costs truck ($30,000.00 / 5 years) $6000.00 Truck insurance $1500.00 Business insurance $1500.00 Trailer ($5000.00 / 3 years) $1666.67 Mower ($10,000 / 3 years) $3333.33 Advertising $2000.00 Phones $1200.00 Fuel for mowers ( 28 weeks x $50.00) $1400.00 Repairs and maintenance $2000.00 Other $2000.00 Total expenses per year $22600.00 $22600.00 expenses / 1120 billable hours = $20.19 My wage (or most expensive employee) $15.00 x 25% taxes = $18.75 $20.19 costs + $18.75 wages = $38.94 In conclusion I have to bill customers $38.94/hour to cover my total costs. Markup $38.94 x 35% mark up = $52.57 Approximately $0.88/minute for working time covers mark up, wage and costs. Driving time per/hour for fuel $20.00 wages for 3 men (2 guys at $13.00, 1 man at $15.00) $41.00 employer contributions ($41.00 x 25%) $10.25 Total costs per diving hour $71.25 $71.25 driving costs / 60 minutes = $1.19/minute of travel In conclusion I would bill the customer $0.88/minute for work done and $1.19 per minute of travel time. EXAMPLE ESTIMATE Customer lives 15 minutes away and has a 35,000 sq ft yard, about 20 minutes of trimming and 10 minutes of blowing. Myself and two men. I have a tractor with a 42 inch deck and two 21 inch mowers, trimmers and blower. I should be able to mow 35,000 sq ft in 30 minutes Driving time 30 minutes (to and from) 30 minutes x $1.19 = $35.75 Total man hours 60 minutes x $0.88= $52.80 TOTAL ESTIMATE $88.55 What did I make? Driving time and labour took 1 hour to complete, for myself and two employees. My costs were labour for two employees ($13.00/ hour x 2 x 25%) $32.50 Fuel for truck $10.00 Hourly overhead $20.19 Total costs $62.69 Therefore I made $25.86 for the job, or approximately $206.88/8 hour day. __________________________________________________ ___________________________ If I sent out 3 guys to do the work I would make $7.11 or approximately $56.88 per day based on these figures. Overtime if I had to pay overtime, I would be losing money on this job. Wages would now be $41.00/hour x 1.5 overtime x 25% employer contributions = $76.89 $76.89 wages + $ 10.00 fuel + $20.19 costs = $107.08 cost to customer $88.55 - $107.08 = -$18.53 I lose $18.53 because of overtime If I lowered my overhead, I would increase the money I make. Example buy a 3 man crew an $8000.00 truck, and I would lower my costs to $16.25 making me $11.05 per hour or $88.40 per 8 hour day Should I increase my rates to cover overtime, or just take the loss and not allow overtime to happen??