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Jail employers for hiring Illegal workers

Discussion in 'General Industry Discussions' started by jeffex, Apr 6, 2006.

  1. jeffex

    jeffex LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,933

    I believe our illegal immigration could be solved by simply setting a cut off date for hiring illegal workers . After that date employers would be given severe fines for 1st offenses and 1yr min. jail time for second offenses. No jobs for illegals and they will go home on their own. No new laws , just enforcement of existing ones. No buses or Tax dollars needed. Oh there will be chaos for a while but eventually the market will bring up the wage for landscape labor and prices will have to be raised to accommodate the cost of hiring American citizens. Sure some people will have to go back to cutting their own lawns because of the price. Some commercial businesses will adjust the services they can afford but it will all settle out. Maybe landscapers will miss having cheap labor that works sun up to sun down and quit all together . Believe me others will fill the gap with trade wages and we will not be selling out our country to short term greed. We will stop the Trojan horse sneaking across our borders to undermine our culture from within. Shame on those employers who are traitors to our country to line their pockets. I know the profit margins in my area will support good wages.I have heard it all about not finding good help but If you don't you will have sold out your family's future in this business and not to mention your country's. NO amnesty for criminals who are invading our country. I don't hate them , I would like to work in a country better than my own where I can get 10 times what I get here and free health care too. I'm mad at employers who are traitors to our country's security
  2. Duck Dodger

    Duck Dodger LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 347

    Years ago they would shut a company down if they had illegals working for them. That was done by the state but the feds came in and said they could only enforce fed laws wich are much softer. I agree with you 110% I only hire legal english speaking employees. If everyone else had to do the same it would level the playing feild.
  3. LawnTamer

    LawnTamer LawnSite Gold Member
    Posts: 3,988

    Sorry, bad idea. You probably don't have employees. If you did and had hired any immigrants, you would know that both the legal and illegal ones have the same documents. Business owners have enough hoops to jump through especially employers, without having to become the immigration police. The fact is most employers have no idea which of heir employees are legal and which aren't and even trained government investigators have a difficult time telling the legit tax ID cards from the fakes, and anyone can get a drivers license.
    The enforcement of law should be left up to those government agencies that are supposed to enforce the law.
  4. jeffex

    jeffex LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,933

    Lawn tamer You sound like you are making EXCUSES for hiring people who may or may not be legal. I have NO employees , your right. What does that have to do with what is right and what is wrong?The looters after hurricane Katrina were breaking the law but because everyone else did it they thought it was O.K.. Sound familiar!The burden IS and should be on you to make sure they are citizens of the united states or H2B documented workers." Because eveyone else is doing it" sounds like a excuse my kid would give me. It is the role of our Gov. to stop letting them get a free ride in this country and enforce our existing laws. I bet if there were a questionable employee of yours you'd fire them before you'd risk going to jail!! This is certaintly not a good thing to happen to the labor pool in the landscape industry but more of a BIG PICTURE decision about the furtue of our Country. Our Gov. is just as much to blame for looking the other way by the INS . they should pay back their paychecks or start to do thier jobs. I am proposing giving employers like you every oppertunity to adjust to the enforcement of existing laws. Hell I thing the Gov should give YOU a tax break and or incentives to comply. After that date passes then your but should be in jail for harboring criminals who broke our immigration laws and refuse to seek citizenship the time honored way it has been done in the past. No harm no foul but lets get this thing back to they way it should be. How about amnesty for employers but NOT criminals.
  5. GreenUtah

    GreenUtah LawnSite Senior Member
    from SLC, UT
    Posts: 866

    perhaps an economics and history lesson is in order here. There are certainly problems with the existing immigration policies in this country,no question. But the impact is certainly not limited to the landscaping industry. Can you imagine the cost of your food if not for immigrant labor, legal or otherwise? How about the roads you drive on, the buildings into which you walk, the clothes you wear, etc. etc. without "cheap" labor from within our borders and beyond. This is a Walmart world, baby, and that has more to do with pricing expectations than anything else. If you can't find a way of increasing the value of your service, if it's just like all the rest of the vanilla offerings, expect people to shop for the lowest price, regardless of who is doing the work. I've had hundreds of employees over the years and I've never, ever seen an "american" teen beating on my door looking for work. Can't say that's the case for others who need to work just to survive. The dirty jobs that most americans do not want to do, face continous labor shortages, filled by those who want and are willing to do the work. This no different than the waves of immigrant workers in the history of this country, who built railroads, dams and roads, worked in dangerous mines and factories and grew our food. It was the Germans, Italians, Irish, Chinese, Greeks and many others that were once the pariah here. Now, as descendants of those people (are you american indian?) we have the rights to say no more, get out? yeah, whatever....Let me know when you're ready to pay $20 for a burger.
  6. AintNoFun

    AintNoFun LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,807

    good for you!!! you may want to have a bad back, hands, knees etc. when your older and not have much to show for it but i dont. i'd rather have immigrants who are more than happy to do my labor for me.. we also do State/DOT prevailing rate work. i got lazy ASS AMERICANS planting trees for $26 hour with full benefits who stink. if a guy without a high school diploma is lazy, shows up late to work isn't happy with that kinda money screw them. i'd be more than happy to hire an immigrant and give him that kind of money......:hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead:

  7. LawnTamer

    LawnTamer LawnSite Gold Member
    Posts: 3,988

    My position isn't an excuse, its a reality. There is no reasonable way for an employer, large or small, to certify the difference between documented and undocumented workers. I happen to know some one who works for the state as an investigator. He specializes in tracking down illegal immigrants who are wanted for other crimes, he frequently goes into construction, landscaping and food service businesses looking for their records. He admitts that despite INS training he can not tell the documented workers from undocumented ones.
    I admit, I had an employee once who turned out to be illegal. He was white, spoke perfect english, had lived in the U.S. since he was 5, he had been an eagle scout and an honor student. He was a great employee. Over a year after he had gone on to college I found out he had been here illegally, his visa had expired. He had a SS card, drivers license and a federal tax ID card.
    Talk to any major employer from McDonalds to city road crews to the local builders and they will all tell you the same thing, that they have hired illegals without knowing it.
    If the government lets them in, issues them drivers licenses, tax ID cards and school id cards, they can't espect us (employers) to do the dirty work of trying to root them out. Its barely worth it to have employees already with all the red tape.
  8. freddyc

    freddyc LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 578

    This is a tough one....small employers don't have time to be detectives...you gotta work.

    On the other end, people have lost sight of the fact that being an illegal is a crime.

    I believe if you KNOWINGLY hire illegals you should get heavily fined or shut down for a second offense. Proving it is another story.....personally, I think for all the taxes we pay, the state could set up a screening area much like a union hall.....then the trades would just get their people from a pre-screened group. Sure it would cost money, but we are paying how much for welfare and all the other freebies for loafers???

    And, if all you can pay is a few bucks an hour, then you're never gonna have good help....everyone would like to do better for their family...over time they take off. I heard that the second largest income in Mexico is the money that workers from the states send home. I don't call that building our economy.
  9. jeffex

    jeffex LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,933

    Its not a matter of more red tape by our gov. With more rules and regulations. Saying I would pay $20 for a burger is just another excuse. Yes I would probably pay more than I do now but what are the real costs of cheap labor. Unsecure borders at a time of terrorist threats. Tax paying americans foot the bill for free health care and social services for these criminals while unscurplious employers reap the profits of cheap labor. In the past immigrants who were deemed sick or criminals were sent back to their native lands. Now some profit hungry landscaper or construction contractor gives them a job working in OUR back yards. Putting people on the path to legalized citizenship teaches them to respect the laws of our country. giving them amnesty says our laws have no penalty. It has gone too far just so we can have cheap goods and services. Will you employers help these workers earn their citizenship? Will you be their sponsor and vouch for their integrity and goal of being an American ? Should part of your profits for knowingly employing workers of "questionable" status be used to pay for their health care and schools for their kids? Or is it just cheap labor you defend and the hell with your country. What if your kid gets TB from an undocumented worker working on your crews. Who should pay for his care? What if one of your guys is the one who steals the Identity from some real American who has a family to feed and looses his credit or goes into debt caused by one of your workers. You don't give a sh^5 its not your money!! We need assistence from or Gov to make it easy for US employers to hire , train and pay American citizens a livable wage . Cut red tape and offer incentives for landscapers to make a profit using documented workers who work and respect the law. Or soon their kids bor in this country will grow up and take away our families future by starting thier own businesses . You wont be able to compete with them unless you can find workers sneaking here from MARS for $5 hr.
  10. J&R Landscaping

    J&R Landscaping LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 5,096

    I agree with this 1000%. Small companies don't have time to investigate who is legal or not, but you should be punished if you get your laborers from the underground railroad or black market!

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