Kiril, Mudd, ICT this should intrest you!

Discussion in 'Organic Lawn Care' started by Barefoot James, Jul 5, 2009.

  1. Prolawnservice

    Prolawnservice LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 612

    use or eat??? haha:waving:
     
  2. ICT Bill

    ICT Bill LawnSite Platinum Member
    Posts: 4,115

    I think he sniffs it, it smells like kindergarden :)
     
  3. Barefoot James

    Barefoot James LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 984

    Getting back to this statement. Please let the experts dissect it - starting with Calcium - Magnesium ratios. 8:1 is ideal and higher if you can get it, I guess the trick (in my case) is to lower the Mag levels while maintaining the Cal levels. My soil test generally indicate my Cal levels are good but the Mag levels are high so what would replace the Mag levels while maintaining the cal levels - cause I would suspect we are all in agreement that 2;1 or anything under 8:1 Cal:Mag would mean we have compaction issues??
     
  4. Barefoot James

    Barefoot James LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 984

    Wow all the BIG boys - even Tim and king Phil have chimed in. Kiril that the best you got? 3 out of 10. Even Tim validates the humate angle. i got no problem with where it comes from high quality casts or mined stuff - bottom line will it help the plant not only grow but sustain it self? Bill keeps talking about rhizosphere true for germination but if surrounding soil sucks the grass germinates (grows) and then dies with a little heat or lack of water.
    This is a great subject that I have very little knowledge in but have invested lots of $$ in and I'm doing tests on over 120 properties. Why? To get fantastic looking grass and happy customers with referrals.
     
  5. nc-jrock

    nc-jrock LawnSite Member
    from NC
    Posts: 133

    "anything under 8:1 Cal:Mag would mean we have compaction issues?? \"

    Barefoot Why do you say this would be compaction issues?
     
  6. Kiril

    Kiril LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 18,298

    Don't know what you are looking for here? A statement taken out of context doesn't mean much and smacks of only a limited understanding of the subject.

    But if you want me to pick it apart.

    "Calcium and Magnesium are the foundation Cation's that are alkaline positive charged Cation's that must dominate the saturation of the Cation Exchange Sites of a soil. The most important material for providing the Electronegativity of a soil (the Cation Exchange Capacity of a soil) and the ability to hold onto these base and acid cation's is the biomolecule called Humus - the Humic Acids." ​

    1. What is a "foundation cation"?
    2. Ca and Mg are not "alkaline", they are cations of strong bases.
    3. Cations not cation's
    4. "Must dominate"? Why?
    5. "the saturation of the Cation Exchange Sites" ... HUH!
    6. "providing the Electronegativity of a soil" ... try again.
    7. "base and acid cation's" ... inconsistent and no mention of any "acid" cations.
    8. "the biomolecule called Humus" ... humus is not a biomolecule, but rather compounds found in humus, such as organic acids.

    Now as far as the value of humic substances in soils, no real need to address that.

    The viability of spraying a ounce or less of "bottled humus" over 1000 square feet ... not convinced it is worth the expense.
     
  7. ICT Bill

    ICT Bill LawnSite Platinum Member
    Posts: 4,115

    Mr. barefoot (are you tickilish?)

    It is very difficult to get rig of Mg in soil, I know we discussed this ad nauseum last year, the best bet is to raise Ca. I agree soil almost magically "opens up" at the 6:1 Ca to Mg ratio, compaction seems to disappear.

    Use dolomitic lime if you lime as a practice, little to no Mg
     
  8. Kiril

    Kiril LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 18,298

    That is a pretty big leap especially considering potential causes of compaction.
     
  9. ICT Bill

    ICT Bill LawnSite Platinum Member
    Posts: 4,115

    That's true, you could be mowing on wet soil and cause compaction, you could drive a bulldozer across it, you could even have king kong walk across your yard

    But in general it is a good goal and one few people talk about
     
  10. Kiril

    Kiril LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 18,298

    You could have high sodium or a natural hard pan as well. Point being, Ca:Mg is not the end all cause of compaction, and a "proper" ratio does not lead to no compaction.
     

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