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Kiril, Mudd, ICT this should intrest you!

Discussion in 'Organic Lawn Care' started by Barefoot James, Jul 5, 2009.

  1. Kiril

    Kiril LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 18,308

    This one?


    Here is a couple you might be interested in from my archive.

    http://www.suprahumic.unina.it/home/images/pdf/Advances in Agronomy 2002.pdf

    Last edited: Jul 9, 2009
  2. terrapro

    terrapro LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,234

    I think the OM that would take away from the turf would outweigh any benefits of bagging to keep Mg levels low...if it even applies here.

    Healthy grass is what like 80-85% water content and maybe some lignin.
  3. Tim Wilson

    Tim Wilson LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 795

  4. Kiril

    Kiril LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 18,308

    OK, then you lost me.

    I will assume here you are referring to the humic polymer model, however I am not seeing anything in that paper that specifically addresses covalent bonding beyond the review of photochemical reactions. Lots of stuff on non-covalent bonding though. ;)
  5. Smallaxe

    Smallaxe LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 10,081

    I agree. Mulching into the soil will probably do more for compaction issues than balancing the Ca/Mn ratio.

    It would still be interesting to know what kind of nutrients are removed in bags. :)
  6. Kiril

    Kiril LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 18,308

    Axe, I believe you mean Ca:Mg ratio (note syntax)
  7. starry night

    starry night LawnSite Silver Member
    Posts: 2,752

    Kiril, Gotta love your precision.
  8. Tim Wilson

    Tim Wilson LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 795

    Quite simply there is a definition of humus which is still degrading and evolving organic matter which is non-covalent aggregately bonded


    There is a definition of humus which is stable having formed a stable molecular structure or is covalent bonded.

    Covalent bonds comprise material which shares electrons in varying degrees and complexities to form electro-chemical configurations, thereby becoming reliable substances. A polymer is simply a complex covalent bonded structure, such as cellulose and in some schools humus.

    I use the terms covalent and non-covalent to draw a more simply defined contrast for purposes of explanation rather than getting into polymeric [sic] chains.
  9. Kiril

    Kiril LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 18,308

    I looked around briefly for info on this and could find none that discussed the model in detail. I have seen (as previously mentioned) suggestions of metal complexing and possible covalent bonding, but nothing on the humic polymer model and related chemistry. What little that paper did discuss the model, it appeared to be limited to a specific set of substances produced under a specific set of conditions in a lab, and not an "all inclusive" model, per what is generally accepted as comprising "humic substances". Perhaps I am mistaken or perhaps one needs to define "humus" or "humic substances" to fit the model?

    In any event there is, by far (it appears), more supporting evidence for supramolecules, so until this changes I will continue to pitch my tent in that camp.
  10. Tim Wilson

    Tim Wilson LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 795

    When I originally posted the article it was to illustrate that there is no set definition for humus and the debate over what truly defines it will likely never be settled. I tend to not go one way or the other, just using the humus from my worms.

    I equate it to some degree to the opposing definitions for compost. Some believe that compost has chunks of wood in it while others maintain no substance should be recognizable. I side with the latter in this case.

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