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Koi, direct sunlight, dead koi, more sunlight

Discussion in 'Water Features' started by Karmascapes, Jun 25, 2011.

  1. tadpole

    tadpole LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,216

    Ditto what STL ponds said about running the system 24/7/365. What you are smelling could be coming what has been sitting in the filter overnight. Anyway a cleaning, done carefully, will get you back close to square one.
    BTW, do not pressure wash, you want to leave any extant biofilm intact.
     
  2. Karmascapes

    Karmascapes LawnSite Member
    from NLR, AR
    Posts: 44

    Ok so just got back from the water plants farm and got a test kit for ph as well as ammonia levels. The ammonia levels were ok but the ph went straight to blue which according to the card included means at the 9.0 or higher level. I know that isn't good and can kill the fish so what is the immediate recovery method? The water temps are actually staying relatively ok, i am beginning to think it is due to a real lack of O2.

    I picked up some water lillies, water lettuce, and something called parrot feathers. They told me one of the best plants to use to produce oxygen is a water hyathicid (?). But they are illegal for some reason here in AR. Any idea about that?
     
  3. tadpole

    tadpole LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,216

    You pretty much ruled out an Oxygen problem in post #3 when you said that the fish were staying in the deepest area during the day. If it was an oxygen problem, they would be at the surface "gasping" or under the waterfall.

    A pH of 9.0 seems unusually high, but I know that certain municipalities keep the pH high to prevent corrosion and biofilm buildup in the supply lines. I would double check the accuracy of the pH test kit. Test a sample of water from most any bottled water. It should read somewhere close to 7.0 or alternately, if you can collect some rainfall, test it. It should read between 5.0 and 6.0. Yea, all rain is acid now.

    Koi can handle a pH of 9.0, but it is not recommended because anything over this can cause mortality. Adjusting the pH can be more dangerous than leaving it high unless it is done ever so gradually. Koi are great adapters to different environmental conditions, what they are not good at is adjusting to a sudden, sizable change in these conditions. Additionally, ammonia becomes more toxic the higher the pH and the higher the temperature, so any ammonia level detected must be correlated to the existing temperature and pH. On top of all that, nitrifying bacteria function at a much lower level at high pH (9.0+).

    I am suspecting that you have possible an ammonia problem or even possible a NitrIte problem from insufficient bioconversion. (Unplugging system overnight, that "smell".)
     
  4. STL Ponds and Waterfalls

    STL Ponds and Waterfalls LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,177

    Water Hyacinth are banned because they are so invasive in warmer climates they can take over waterways. Kinda surprising in AR though. Watchout for Parrot Feather as well it can over take your streams, ponds.
     
  5. Karmascapes

    Karmascapes LawnSite Member
    from NLR, AR
    Posts: 44

    Yeah they told me the parrot feathers grow quickly, they actually recommended cutting off about 1 inch every couple of weeks. They said that doing this would help keep them growing full and not out all over.

    What about the claim that hyacinth produce twice as much oxygen as most other plants?
    You can't be saying that our climate down here isnt hot enough right? Our summers are brutal, not as bad as fl with tad, but still Hell.

    I just added a quart of hydrogen peroxide too
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
  6. tadpole

    tadpole LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,216

    Water Hyacinths are known for their ability to pull nutrients from pond water. Don't think that I have ever heard that they were any better as an oxygenator than most other aquatic plants.

    Why did you add Hydrogen peroxide? For Oxygen? Though it will add some oxygen to the water, it is a temporary fix, because hot water does not have the ability to hold Oxygen as well as cool water. The dosage must also be carefully controlled and properly applied as the peroxide will burn the eyes and gills of the fish.

    Please don't start throwing chems into your pond. You will only end up doing more damage

    http://www.pondcrisis.com/a_peroxide.html
     
  7. STL Ponds and Waterfalls

    STL Ponds and Waterfalls LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,177

    What the beach frog said.
     
  8. Karmascapes

    Karmascapes LawnSite Member
    from NLR, AR
    Posts: 44

    Well the reason for the peroxide was because as I was talking to the head koi guy, he said a real easy way to test to see if the fish are lacking oxygen was to pour in a bottle of peroxide. If after a few mins the fish begin to move around when they had previously been still then its a lack of o2.

    I'm not one to jump on a band wagon but hydrogen peroxide is water with an extra oxygen molecule. So why would it burn there eyes and gills. I don't want to do anything that will hurt the fish, I've had enough die already and they aren't getting any cheaper.

    This guy also said something about putting non iodized salt in there, but I wasn't listening at that time. Any idea
    We had our first solid rain here in over a month. With the rainfall today do I need to re test the ph?

    I didn't realize how much koi cost. I'm curious as to what they go for around others. Bout $150 here
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
  9. STL Ponds and Waterfalls

    STL Ponds and Waterfalls LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,177

    Shop around for your Koi., you can get them a whole lot cheaper.
     
  10. tadpole

    tadpole LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,216

    Your 'head koi guy' scares me.
    No knowledgeable responsible professional in the decorative pond business is going advise adding anything to your pond without seeing the results of specific tests of water quality parameters. A quart of Clorox will get the fish moving around also. Rock salt added in the right proportions will render NitrIte less toxic, but you need to know the level of NitrIte and the capacity of the pond to determine the correct amount to add. Salt has no effect on Oxygen levels.

    Koi can handle Oxygen levels as low as 5 mg/L for an extended period of time. I seriously doubt that the level in your pond is that low.

    For $150.00, you should be getting a minimum 12"-14" fish. 6" - 8" Koi retail for $25 - $30 down here.

    On the Hydrogen Peroxide, it is the extra Oxygen atom that gives it the caustic properties different from water, much like the same extra Oxygen atom conversely changes Carbon Monoxide from a very deadly gas to Carbon Dioxide that plants respire and is usually harmless.
    You can retest the pH, if you are confident that it is giving accurate results, but it is normal for pH to undergo some fluctuation daily.
    What was the Ammonia level when you tested before? Did you test for NitrIte? If not, test for that also.
    Any corrective measures undertaken as regards water quality parameters, whether biological or chemical, should be administered based on reliable test results, not on "Looks like", "Might be" or "It's probably".
     

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