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Labor for 14 acres?

5K views 20 replies 12 participants last post by  Ric 
#1 ·
Hi everyone,
I am looking to bid a 14 to 15 acre site and was looking to get some advice on how to price out such a large proposal? No permagreen,it will be hand spread. Thanks
 
#6 ·
Hi everyone,
I am looking to bid a 14 to 15 acre site and was looking to get some advice on how to price out such a large proposal? No permagreen,it will be hand spread. Thanks
IMHO there is no way you can compete hand spreading that much acreage. Labor will kill your bottom line if you get the Bid. But more important if you bid it high enough to cover labor costs, Your competeiors will under cut your bid.

Lawn mowing prices haven't gone up percentage wise with other costs. The reason is modern equipment has brought down the labor cost. The moral or the story is don't bid work you can't handle. Or gear up to handle bigger work.

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#7 ·
IMHO there is no way you can compete hand spreading that much acreage. Labor will kill your bottom line if you get the Bid. But more important if you bid it high enough to cover labor costs, Your competeiors will under cut your bid.

Lawn mowing prices haven't gone up percentage wise with other costs. The reason is modern equipment has brought down the labor cost. The moral or the story is don't bid work you can't handle. Or gear up to handle bigger work.

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The voice of wisdom (ric)! Strap an old lesco truckster to a garden tractor, or even pull a drop spreader with a horse, but dont do that kind of footage by hand. Offer someone with a ride on a couple hundred for a one day rental?
 
#8 ·
Need details...is it a condo or apt that is cut into many small parcels with flowers and curbs? That is perfectly suited to a hand spreader. Plan to do about 1000 sqft per minute (because you need to fill it up every 10 minutes). 11 man-hours spreading time. Labor should be about a dollar per minute...except...more if you have to sweat...more if you are a high school graduate (then it is skilled labor), more if you have uniforms (because then you look professional). Save time by driving your truck around and place fert bags every hundred feet or so. Devise a method with bungie cords or something to tie the empty bags to your spreader, maybe put them in a backpack. Suggestions needed here.

If is is more wide open, its easier to do, but it is more suited to a ride-on and your competition may underbid you. The manager will laugh when he hears you only have a push spreader.

Do you mean you will spread pellitized lime at the same time? (Not recommended). And lime is problematical--you need to apply about 50 pounds per thousand sqft--refill every minute. You need three men at minimum. One drives truck. One spreads. One refills a second spreader and trades off when first one is empty.
Be sure to have an extra spreader or two--there is a good chance you will break one.

Has anyone invented a way to make a tow behind spreader out of a push spreader?
 
#10 ·
Hey man do not worry about these guys telling you not to do it. If you feel like it is something you can handle then go for it. I do applications for a large site all done by hand about 12 acres. Anything ride on pretty impractical for this site, lots of small grass islands, narrow corridors etc. Really the key is staging your product in convenient fill up points. I can walk spread the whole thing by myself in about 6-8 hrs.
 
#11 ·
Hey man do not worry about these guys telling you not to do it. If you feel like it is something you can handle then go for it. I do applications for a large site all done by hand about 12 acres. Anything ride on pretty impractical for this site, lots of small grass islands, narrow corridors etc. Really the key is staging your product in convenient fill up points. I can walk spread the whole thing by myself in about 6-8 hrs.
...and you spot spray weeds the next day?
No doubt that it can be done. And if your schedule isn't that full, why not? Extremely labor intensive though. I would only take it with a signed contract. Too many tire kickers when it comes to large sums of money. Huge properties like that always concerned me. I've never liked having too many eggs in one basket. I've seen guys base the majority of their business on 10-12 large properties. Things are great until you lose 4 of them for whatever reason (Usually a lowballer). Can be a ship sinker.

I charge a set price per acre for weed control/fert that waivers very little. I would charge $2800/per app myself. And that would be doing it with a Z-spray. If they didn't want to pay that much, no prob. I've got plenty who will. The question you need to ask yourself after figuring materials is, How busy/hungry are you presently and how busy do you see yourself in the near future? This will help you decide if this fits into the direction your business is headed.
 
#12 ·
If need be I will do a follow up spot spray. If weeds are a big concern I am spraying fert and weed control together. I am just saying it works for me and it can be done. The way I see it I can put two guys on it be around 1700 to 1800 labor and materials if I charge 2800 that leaves me with about a grand for a days work. For a small operation like myself thats a good day maybe not for a bigger company but like I said it works for me.
 
#14 ·
If need be I will do a follow up spot spray. If weeds are a big concern I am spraying fert and weed control together. I am just saying it works for me and it can be done. The way I see it I can put two guys on it be around 1700 to 1800 labor and materials if I charge 2800 that leaves me with about a grand for a days work. For a small operation like myself thats a good day maybe not for a bigger company but like I said it works for me.
You're right, it can be done. Especially if your schedule is pretty empty and you have time for it. Pricing it properly weeds out the tire kickers and assures you aren't just doing it to have "busy" work. If you're in business, you should be "busy" making money.

I agree completely about not putting all your eggs in one basket if I where to lose out to a lowballer then I am better off for it, no point in doing work that doesnt make money.
Absolutely!
 
#15 ·
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When a 25 acre Fire Ant job came my way, I already had the Lesco Truckster on the Walker Mower with a boom sprayer. I call it the "Ric-A-Green". But the Ric-A-Green was too small for competitive work on 25 acres. This justified me building Ric's-Ride which is a 150 Gallon Boomless sprayer. I already had Ric's Ride but it was in unusable shape. Now I use Ric's-Ride on Medium to Large accounts where I used to drag hose.

So re-thinking the OP question. As a Start up in this economy, yes it might be better than nothing. And it might be a chance to grow big. Lawn King, Creech and myself were looking from an established Business point of view. We already have a busy schedule. If we add work it had better pay good.

BTW The 25 acre job is my one biggie, the other 99% are homes or small business. No one likes losing an account, But I won't miss a meal if I lose any one account.

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#16 ·
Factor in the potential that he won't pay. Savvy unscrupulous business people...love to find small guys that can only see the big dollars they are going to earn when they hit the "big time", and usually the owner promises you will also start to treat his many other properties and apartment complexes in the future. And next year he gets someone else. Check his reputation. And get a solid, signed contract. Find out who did his lawn care and other services for him last few years.
 
#17 ·
Factor in the potential that he won't pay. Savvy unscrupulous business people...love to find small guys that can only see the big dollars they are going to earn when they hit the "big time", and usually the owner promises you will also start to treat his many other properties and apartment complexes in the future. And next year he gets someone else. Check his reputation. And get a solid, signed contract. Find out who did his lawn care and other services for him last few years.
Been There, Had That Done To Me many many years ago. Now I stay away from Real Estate Companies and Small time Developers. I have a friend in the Real Estate Business who pretty much explained this was SOP on Rehabing Forclosed Properties. They start with the small guys to do the clean up work. when that is about finished they fire the guy and claim he is stealing something. Now the contractor is on the defensive and the Scum bag is laughing his way to the bank. In my case I used a Redneck collection agent.

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#19 ·
I cant imagine walking 14 acres. Divided sections and hills will make that a two day job easy. Also if the grass is tall it creates much more friction pushing a spreader. Short grass helps out.

I use a z-spray jr on an 11 acre site. Hills, retention ponds, obstacles everywhere. It takes me on average 7-9 hours depending on fert rate and if it needs a blanket spray. Walking it would be horrible.
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#20 ·
I would take the job, but find a way to do it with power equipment, even if i had to buy a yard sale tractor and invent the rig myself! You could always sub it out and pocket a couple hundred off the top?
 
#21 ·
I would take the job, but find a way to do it with power equipment, even if i had to buy a yard sale tractor and invent the rig myself! You could always sub it out and pocket a couple hundred off the top?
Been There Done That and Have The Tee Shirt to prove it.

I think my first post needs some explanation. I am not going to take on work I am not able to gear up for. When my 25 acre job came along I was not fully mechanized but knew I could gear up because I have resources. The OP made it sound like he was on a shoe sting budget. To little cash can be a real killer to operating any business.

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