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Discussion in 'Turf Renovation' started by aeration, Mar 26, 2011.
overkill but badass!
Thanks for the pic. We need more pic's of plug's from every machine it will help determine which machine produce's the best results.I think 4 '' plugs are a little overkill as well .Aeration do you just have the ride on or do you have a walk behind as well?If you have a walk behind could you snap pic's of both machine's plugs side by side. I would love to have the rider but $8500 is steep and with the amount of aerations i am currently doing it's just not feasible yet.
Looks like some nice pee gravel and stone free soil in those plugs - wish we had soil like that here. Would LOVE to demo the stander on my home turf with all the HUGE dinosaur egg rocks lurking just below the surface. The same rocks that have given my original Plugr 850 Hydro a tough tormented life: stress cracked Honda GX200 Block due to constant pounding, busted spot welds and a bunch of burned up Plugr tines and near daily belt adjustments and tine cam greasing.
I'll be posting pics of my Lawn Solutions WB with the full weight kit compared to my Plugr 850 Hydro in the near future. Just this morning I rented a Blue Bird 530 just to fair. The Lawn Solution does pull better plugs than the Blue Bird but the clear winner in visual impact and plug count goes to my other machines. I now own 2 of them.
I'm in brain storming mode now on a handy, quick release yet secure and effective way to put an additional 80- 100 pound weight on the back of the LS WB down low near those carriage bolt holes so I can pull the deepest possible plugs with the Lawn Solutions WB 21".
Possible future aerator purchases for me are the Ryan 28 reciprocating and of course the Lawn Solutions stander.
I'm going to be blunt here. It is extremely unlikely that I will ever own or purchase an aerator that has a wider patter than 3.5" x 6". The Lawn Solutions WB and Stander fit this spec. My business model mantra has always been more plugs per square foot in a single pass.
The Blue Bird I rented today.....um......... sorry not enough plugs in one pass and too short. A blue bird double pass still looked lame and weak compared to a single Plugr 850 pass.
The Lawn Solutions WB double pass was noticabley stronger than the BlueBird double pass.
I also would like to see the results of LS wb. I went to work for a Lawn & Tree Comp. here in KS, and they are still using the Ryan 28. For flat and rootless lawns these are great, but for the hills and rooted up propertys these are just dangerous. As well as being body breakers, we need new machines !!
I have never demoed a Ryan 28 or even seen one in my local area. I would have to demo one on rocky ground and throw in some side hills with rocks for real world testing. I have heard they are top heavy and a pita on soggy spots. Is there a reverse on the Ryan 28? Back in the 80's 3 wheel ATVs were the thing. Maybe Ryan needs to redesign?
The Plugr Hydro can go places other machines can't. Expensive tines, high fiddle factor, higher maintenance and all.... but the results are worth it ONLY if you're getting more $ for running one. Over the last 3 years I have dealt with my share of scoffers on the advantages of the Plugr 850 results. I absolutely LOVE to aerate next to another lawn aerated by a rental or another Co. This year I'm taking no prisoners with my marketing angle.
Hey Exact Rototilling you seem to be pretty happy with your pluger and the plugs it throws, looks kinda similar to the LS rider in comparison. Don't know how large the properties your aerating but do you think the rider would be advantageous to your business on the basis of time management and operator fatigue .From what it looks like to me the LS rider is far superior in plug pulling compared to the other smaller machine offerings from LS.Which I feel the smaller walk behinds from LS are plagued with being to light in weight causing the rolling tine system not to penetrate the ground like it's bigger brother the rider which is much heavier.Ive been contemplating installing a heavy weight system for the front and rear of my LS walk behind that would hang lower on the frame for a lower center of gravity.
Aeration If this rider is your only machine do you have issue's with getting into the nooks and cranies in yards.It look's like the size of the machine would limit you in tight area's how do you combat that? And if you can't get into those nooks and cranies do you find that cust's complain for being short changed? It would seem to me you would really need the rider as well as a walk behind to do a proper job.You might be able to get away with it for the first time the first year but sometime's cust's won't tell you there unhappy you just won't get the future call backs.Also from another stand point a cust paying good money for aeration wants to see you on there lawn for more then 10 min even if you do a proper fantastic job.They want to feel they get there money's worth and don't care you spent 8500 dollars on a special aerator to get the job done faster.The older folks balk the most over this even with grass cutting.Have you experienced anyone questioning you on this?
Great question. I'm sure the LS stander would help me greatly on the 1/2 acre and larger properties [less money for time spent], but the glitch is I'm not sure it would save any time on the smaller rocky and slopped and hilled properties we have here. If I just stick to 1/3 acre or less I'm clearly better off with what I'm currently running. Prices for aeration on bigger parcels is pretty beat down thanks to even the big companies here. Even with my lawn solutions WB last spring with just one weight one customer said, "hey those are way better plugs than the other BIG Co." I'd rather do 3 smaller properties in one neighborhood than one single large estate one. The big plus on the LS stander is the deeper plugs over the Plugr 850 ....however due to all the rocks here.....it's an unknown.
Lots of aeration lowballers here running inferior machines with sparse patterns and you have to hunt the plugs down and you can barely tell it's been aerated unless you're up close to the property. I'm flat out NOT going to do second passes with ANY machine unless I get 40% - 60% more for the job.
I believe I'm the only one in the area currently with a Lawn Solutions aerator of any kind. If there are any I'm interested in subbing them out as long as it's the WB or Stander with the 3.5" x 6" pattern.
I also believe I'm the only one who has a Plugr 850 or 855 in the area.....also interested in subbing out work to them as well. Sorry Plugr 400's and 600's need not apply ...less plugs. Plugr 800 maybe...?
FYI: Any of my subcontractors need to have documented liability insurance for Idaho and to operate in Washington state Licensing for each region and carry a Bond which can only be had with insurance.
To answer a few questions:
I have the Ride On and the 21" WB. I will probably purchase the dual hydro in another season or two. I want a back up for the Ride On, just in case.
The biggest problem I face with the rider is getting through some fences. I don't have a lot of fenced properties, but some fences only have 36" gates, so the WB is utilized to complete the back yard. Not as fun because the back lawn is alomost always larger than the front.
I haven't had any complaints about the speed. Actually, I tend to take just a bit longer than I really need to and try to get very close to the hard surfaces. This makes me slow down around certain areas to be careful. I wouldn't care if someone was upset that it didn't take long. I didn't make the investment just so I could take the same amount of time. Most people get it. If anyone ever suggested otherwise, I wouldn't be interested in their business. (advantage of being part time, seasonal)
I won't guarantee you pull the 4 inch cores all the time. The ground is moist from the snow and rain from winter. Although so many times guys say they pull 2.5-3 inch cores. That's a stretch. They usually don't. The second knuckle on your middle finger is aprx. 2 inches from the tip. That would be an acceptable core (IMO) I don't see too many of those lying on the lawns.
And yes, 4 inch core is probably a bit overkill, but I like to see the capability from time to time.
I had a pluger PL800 and when the ground was hard it litterally bounced off of it and didn't pull anything. But then again, the ground was rock hard.
Aeration has a great point on pulling good plugs on dry ground with the LS stander ...I have had to abort several aerations I'm the past due to lack of moisture in the lawn. Had to abort and.reschedule ...huge time waster and makes mowing more profitable when that happens. Other companies in the area will often proceed when conditions are not right. This contributes to the rip off factor and general bias against aeration in general. At least that has been my experience.
Good plugs need to have some sub soil to be of benefit for the top dressing effect of aeration.
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