Lazer Rear Tire problem.

Discussion in 'eXmark' started by TLS, Apr 10, 2002.

  1. TLS

    TLS LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 7,937

    On my Lazer's rear tires (Carlisle 2ply Turfmasters 24-12x12's) I have two sidewall bubbles/bulges! Wasn't like this at the start of the season. I washed it thouroughly 2 weeks ago and literally scrubbed the tires and wheels. Made it look like a new mower. Tires were fine then.

    Anyway, do you think that this will cause a problem? I can push on the bubbles and they don't seem to have the same psi of air as the tire does. They seem real light and easy to push compared to the rest of the sidewall. I just dont want them to pop that one ply that the bubbles are in and cause an unfixable leak The sidewalls look wrinkled like a drag slick where these bubbles are.


    Also on another similarly related note....Do you guys with these tires notice that the tread that contacts the ground is concave? What I am saying is the tread on the tire is only worn on the outsides, the inside tread still has tits on it and isn't worn at all. This is due to the tire dipping in or concave. If I put 10psi on all 4 tires, it is really noticable, I put 15 in and it improves it slightly (squares up the tread more even all the way across). When they were new, I could put a ruler across the tread and stick a pencil under the ruler in the center, while the ruler rested on the outside tread! On these tires they say "MAX INFLATION 10 psi" Why does Exmark suggest 13psi ?

    Is there any type of tire warranty for this type of thing? I'm just worried that when I go to replace that one defective tire, that I will have to now do both (due to 500+hrs wear) or the mower will sit crooked. I understand that Exmark "matches" tire circumference and keeps them similar. Where do they measure? I would have two very different measurements if I measured the center vs. the edges with these tires!



    Thanks in advance!
     
  2. eXmark

    eXmark Manufacturer / Sponsor
    Posts: 4,258

    TLS

    Great question. We do see these types of bulges from time to time although it's fairly uncommon. The bulge is the visual evidence that the cords have broken. Causes will vary but if you've got 500 hours on this set of tires I'd say it's probably from the pounding the tires take day in and day out and they should be replaced. My suggestion to prevent further failures of this type would be to increase your tire pressure. The recommended 13 psi is generally the best all around pressure for these tires under most conditions.

    Increasing the tire pressure is going to do two things for you. First it is possible that it will help reduce the likelihood of a similar failure re-occurring and second it will eliminate the "concave" tread that you referenced. Personally I like to inflate the 24X12 tire until it slightly "crowns" instead of being "concave". I've heard a few reports from the field that this also helps reduce the amount of "turfing" that occurs.

    The bad new is that your tire is toast. It may not have given up the ghost yet but it will, it's just a matter of time.

    You may not need to replace both tires but it is quite likely. Replace the tire that is bad and measure it against the one tire that is still good. If they match great, if not try increasing the tire pressure in the smaller of the two. More than likely the older tire will be larger because they have worked all of the "stretch" out of them. If your not cutting right now, go buy a tire today and have it mounted. If it's small inflate it until you get them to match (if possible). You can even inflate the new tire to 32 lbs. for a couple of days to get all of the "stretch" out. Then adjust your tire pressures so the two match up. Ultimately you may need to replace both tires but if you've got the time it might save you a buck or two.

    When measuring you will want to measure in the center of the tire. This will help ensure that your measurements are consistent.

    Sorry for the long post.

    Thanks

    Terry
     
  3. TLS

    TLS LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 7,937

    Thanks Terry!

    Do you think that there is a chance these would be under Carlisle's 2 yr warranty? I have only had it 1yr and 8 months. I'm not trying to be cheap, but it IS a defect in their materials and workmanship. The tires only have about 1/2 tread left on the edges, and like I said, they're full tread in the centers! Have you heard of anyone making a sucessfull warranty claim with Carlisle? Never hurts to try. Now I'm so busy, hope it doesn't give out on me too soon!

    Were you indicating that ALL 24-12x12 tires tend to be concave at 13 psi? That really shouldn't be, because the sidewall says MAX INFLATION 10psi. If thats what the tire calls for, then this should be 3 psi over which "should" have eliminated the concave shape. I will replace both, just to start out with even tread. May even buy a tire and rim, and keep my old good one as a spare! Easier to change a tire than get a flat fixed!

    Thanks again Terry!
     
  4. eXmark

    eXmark Manufacturer / Sponsor
    Posts: 4,258

    TLS,

    I don't know what Carlisle will have to say in regards to warranty but I'm a firm believer in you never know until you ask.

    If you committed to buying two new tires (which is what I would do) you might want to go with the Multi-trac c/s. This is a new tire for us that is slightly different than the Turf Masters you are currently using. Incidentally it's also the tire that will be standard equipment in the near future but don't tell anybody. It's a secret; we don't want our competition to find out. I wonder if they're reading this?

    I also looked at the Turf Masters we have on some of our test units and something doesn't make sense. Everything we have here has a max. inflation of 20 lbs. It's possible that they make this tire for many different applications and each one has a different rating? I'm just not sure but if you could double check the numbers on the sidewall it might help.

    The concave look to the tire is one of those little inherent things you get with a molded tire just like the dimensional differences. The concave section also part of the mold where the seam is. The tire mold is “pinched” so that it has a concave appearance under no load. This helps ensure that under a heave load the tire sits flat. I did talk to Carlisle about this and they also said that most often the tire will flatten out after is stretches a little. They also said once in a while you can get a batch that want to be stubborn and you’ll need to inflate them to 20 lbs for a week or so to stretch them. After that they usually will flatten out just fine.

    Are cords breaking a defect? Well, I'd say that without a doubt I'm a 100% uncertain. I did talk to our warranty department and in their opinion this most likely is not a defect. As they put it "more often than not if there is a defect in something as abused as a tire, it'll show up in a big hurry". That kinda make sense in comparison.

    I also placed a call to Carlisle and they said there are generally two causes for a cord to break. One is improper installation of the tire onto the rim causing the bead to be damaged. This then allows some air under pressure to work its way up between the layers and into the sidewall creating the bulge your seeing. The other cause is a severe bruise. These bruises can be a hard scuffing or impact to the sidewall or it is also possible to occur from a severe bottoming out of the tire/rim on a hard surface. Generally if it is from improper mounting or if they are broken when new it will show up real fast. I hope this helps.

    Thanks

    Terry
     
  5. TLS

    TLS LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 7,937

    Hi Terry,

    Thanks for your reply, I'm about to call my dealer about this to see what we can work out.

    On thing that I think is fishy is that in the owners manual, it lists my 24-12x12 Turfmasters as being 4 Ply rated. Well they're NOT they are 2 ply rated with MAX INFLATION 10 psi on the sidewall.!! Do I possibly have the incorrect rated tire here? Check your demo's and let me know if yours say 4ply or 2ply.

    Thanks, you guys are great!!
     
  6. eXmark

    eXmark Manufacturer / Sponsor
    Posts: 4,258

    TLS,

    2 ply or 4 ply, anything is possible and stranger things have happened. E-mail me at terry.eckert@exmark.com with your serial number and the dealership your are working with and we'll see what shakes out.

    Thanks

    Terry
     
  7. Vibe Ray

    Vibe Ray LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 785

    Hey, I'm sorry, but I am curious....what are the Multi-trac c/s tires? How are they different? :confused:
     
  8. eXmark

    eXmark Manufacturer / Sponsor
    Posts: 4,258

    Vibe,

    The Multi-Trac's are just a new tread pattern for us from a new supplier. The lugs still follow the same basic pattern of the Turf Master but the lugs are shaped differently and they have wider spacing between them.

    I talked to our engineer that tested this tire and what he found is that it had better traction and created less turf damage than the Turf Master. The Multi-Trac also exhibited good tread cleaning characteristics and had good tread life.

    Thanks

    Terry
     
  9. Vibe Ray

    Vibe Ray LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 785

    coooooooooooooooooooooool!!!:cool:
     

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