LED bi-pin retrofits

Discussion in 'Landscape Lighting' started by David Gretzmier, Feb 21, 2012.

  1. indylights

    indylights LawnSite Member
    Posts: 166

    Alan,

    Thanks for the lengthy explanation. I am decently versed on the technology of LED and the color vs. output battle. I was merely asking a personal opinion of the readers if they consider 3000k warm white, since that is what most (but not all) LED manufacturers list as their warm white color temp.

    And David, I agree with SMLL in terms of both his color and quality statements about the Illumicare.

    Scott Maloney
    Sunflower Landscapes
     
  2. S&MLL

    S&MLL LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 751

    ground fx I'm on my phone so I can not tell how long you have been here. Or where you are from. But I would like to know what makes it the worlds worst led YOU'VE ever seen???

    Please let me know so I can go and change out the 400 plus minis I have in the field to unqiues led.
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
  3. Groundfxlandscape

    Groundfxlandscape LawnSite Member
    Posts: 2

    I would like to say that was a slightly harsh comment on my part about the Illumicare LED, but it's my opinion. You don't have to agree, and it's probably a great product. I was only commenting on the looks of the bulb. It is my opinion that it is awkward looking by appearance only. I wasn't attacking the man or the company. It was just my initial reaction just like seeing someone’s ugly baby pictures in the break room. Just warn a man before you spring that on him. It may be the ugly duckling that turns out to be a swan. I'm sorry!

    I know that the LED is considered white at 3000K. I also know that it looks great in a Unique fixture, but it's surrounded by a frosted lens. So the appearance may be slightly softened. I believe the reason for the cooler LED was to get greater lumens out of the bulb as stated above. Their other bulbs are a true 2700K, 3000K, 50000k. I have placed the 3000k bi-pen next to a 2700K MR-16 without any problems, and I'm super picky.

    I know it's a great product because I have used it. I just wanted to point David in a positive direction. I would love to hear what other great products are out there. So if anyone has tried another great product let’s discuss it. That's why we are all here. I want to use the best and right now I believe that is Unique. I would love for someone to hook me on to something better if it’s out there. I just haven't seen anything better in the way of retro fit bulbs at this time.

    Now for the comment on the bulb life I believe they rated it for what they did, because I think they wanted to be realistic on its life. Most bulbs are rated strictly off the LED manufacture specs. A lot of good that does if lighting companies aren’t relating it to heat and the other components of the LED. LED manufactures have been blurring ratings for years. It should feel refreshing that a company is being honest about the rating, and it should last 3-5 times the warranty when you look at actual time running (6-8 hrs. avg. per day). Before you make an opinion one way or the other look up the retail price of the bulb.

    People in this forum have a tendency to take things way to personal. People are just stating what they know and have found. No one is saying take my word for gospel. It’s just one man’s opinion and nothing more.
     
  4. S&MLL

    S&MLL LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 751

    its just weird that you would maKe such a statement about a whole line of products that you have never used..... Your going off "looks" . I will get a hold of some of the unique led and test them.

    As far as the looks of the retro I guess it looks weird. But if people can see my lamps I have a bigger problem then the looks.

    Actually the larger bi pin fits in a coppermoon cm895. Which is my go to second story fixture
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
  5. David Gretzmier

    David Gretzmier LawnSite Gold Member
    Posts: 3,645

    So right now we are looking at illumicare's, Landscape lighting worlds, and uniques. anybody have any experience with anything else? I may go ahead and grab a few off ebay just to try, and yes, before you guys go bazonkers, I am aware of all the other guys doing heatsinking, moisture environment, etc, but this is a test. You put them out here and see how they do in real time and I report back.
     
  6. Steve Atkinson

    Steve Atkinson LawnSite Member
    Posts: 94

  7. Alan B

    Alan B Sponsor
    Posts: 406

    Steve,

    I like the Brilliance products and that bipin design in particular (for its IP rating and omni direction output). The problem for me was the lumens (85 lumens). To put it in perspective we have a 250 lumen lamp and we equate it to a 20w halogen and a 190 lumen bi pin that we call a 15w equivalent. 85 lumens under any circumstance will not replicate the illumination of a 20w halogen. If the lumens could get over 200, it would be a winner but at 85 I would have a hard time classifying it as a 10 w equivalent.
     
  8. emby

    emby LawnSite Senior Member
    from Ontario
    Posts: 380

    After reading this complete thread I find it kinda funny that so many of you are actually having a debate on who's product is the best.
    As lighting designers, a light source is only a tool in our tool belt and it really depends on what your trying to illuminate that determines what light source you are going to use. Trying to maintain an optimum 3 to 1 ratio throughout your compositions and determining the reflectance of the things that you are trying to illuminate cannot be completed with one lamp or one LED.
    Obtaining light samples and testing them yourself is the only way you are going to make an informed decision.
    The problem that I have found with the "new" LED source is that you have to do a lot of testing and look at all the information that each and every manufacturer is providing. First of all, most of the specifications and information provided is different with every manufacturer as there is not a current standard that they are following. Some provide lumen output, lumen's, CBCP, temperature colour that is not the same even though two products will say 3000K, but when you put them on a wall one will be more white and the other is more of a pink colour.
    Are they engineered for the application of being outside and inside an enclosed fixture as this will certainly determine the life expectancy and your bottom line especially if they start failing early.The worst is that in two years or less, technology is going to change and those products will be replaced with newer more powerful versions. Its going to be a while before this all settles down.
    To each his/her own, because at the end of the day its you the designer that needs to artistically create a design that works using the many different light sources that are available and most importantly keeping your clients happy.
    I am not happy that in this thread, some manufacturers are comparing their products with others and stating from specifications that one is better or has brighter lumen output than the other. Every manufacturer develops products to provide us with more tools in our tool pouch and its up to us to decide which one works for us and for each of our projects.
    I say enough and get out of the habit of comparing LED lamps as being equivalent to a Halogen source because they are not the same in any way.
    If you want to do the industry a favor provide us end users with well informed specifications that are done using the same testing standards across the board. Providing the end user with as much information as possible and explaining your specifications as to where your product can be used will be helpful as well. I want to know that it can go in any enclosed fixture, or that it can be submerged. This usually is provided by IP ratings or standards through some type of listing such as UL, or CSA etc.
    Just my couple of cents today.
    Light it up.

    Ken
     
  9. steveparrott

    steveparrott Sponsor
    Posts: 1,182

    Interesting to hear about Unique's claim for L70 of 20,000 hrs. Sounds like they are being very honest about what a 20 or 35W equivalent retrofit can do in an enclosed fixture.

    This number is in line with what our engineers estimate for all LED MR-16 retrofits considering the extreme high temperatures and poor thermal transfer in enclosed fixtures.

    You also have to be concerned with how these high temperatures affect the phosphor coating - increasing color temperature as they age.

    High temperatures also reduce lumen output as they heat (this is apart from how the high temps reduce L70).

    This is why we believe that for consumers to get the maximum long-term benefits of LED technology they need to invest in solutions where LED's have a good thermal path to the fixture body.

    I understand the need for retrofits to replace lamps in existing fixtures, but I hope that as lighting professionals we are encouraging homeowners to replace their fixtures with integrated LED models when a good retrofit solution is not available. And, for new installations, making integrated fixtures the first choice.

    For those who want to learn more about our reasoning, I suggest you download our hour-long LED webinar (if you haven't already done so) - just register and log in through our website and you can download the webinar.
     
  10. starry night

    starry night LawnSite Silver Member
    Posts: 2,600

    Steve, I am not finding the LED webinar under "learning" and "webinars."
    What might I be doing wrong?
     

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