Liability

Discussion in 'Landscape Lighting' started by moonlighting, Apr 2, 2010.

  1. moonlighting

    moonlighting LawnSite Member
    Posts: 26

    I recently learned that i have been installing some light fixtures that do not have a CSA or ULc listing.

    I have been installing some of these for 3 years, all the while claiming that all of the fixtures in fact were listed.The manufaturer in the past had listed every fixture in their product line, had always clamied to be the safe system and promoted to me these key factors to earn my business.
    are they to be hald liable also if there is an issue with one of there fixtures that causes an issue with my customers?

    My supplier, who also is a huge supporter of CSA listed fixtures had sold me these fixtures, are they also to be held liable?

    of course i will be held liable if there is a issue with my installation while using these fixtures.

    these are the questions i am wondering about on good Friday. What are your thoughts on this?

    Jason Fleming
    Moonlighting
     
  2. irrig8r

    irrig8r LawnSite Platinum Member
    Posts: 4,533

    I think you have every right to be pissed. It's also strange that the discussion where you first tried airing this was censored...

    We know that there were other distractions going on, but it's really not an excuse. And I'm not sure how deep the manufacturer's pockets are anymore should anything bad happen.

    You are obviously not alone in this. My initial research tells me that some of the fixtures may either have no listing at all, or the record keeping has been lax.

    I talked to my distributor about it yesterday. He had no idea either.
     
  3. moonlighting

    moonlighting LawnSite Member
    Posts: 26

    So Greg, will this effect you in your area? do you currently get inspections on your installs? if so, are the inspectors so lax that they only glance at the transformer?

    j
     
  4. moonlighting

    moonlighting LawnSite Member
    Posts: 26

    I have a list of fixtures that were checked against the CSA website and were not listed. PM me if you want them.
     
  5. irrig8r

    irrig8r LawnSite Platinum Member
    Posts: 4,533

    I think I already saw that list from John H. I'm still waiting for details and want to see a response from the manufacturer. Yes I have likely installed some of them. I hope a listing is retroactive.

    I don't get LV work inspected, mostly because I don't usually install on a structure (except deck railings, posts, arbors, gazebos) it's done within the scope of landscaping work, and as far as I know such inspections are not required here.
     
  6. INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting

    INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting LawnSite Platinum Member
    Posts: 4,102

    Jason, you are correct that any and all electrical components installed by you must have the appropriate listings/approvals. Here in Ontario those listings are CSA, ULc, cETL, cTUV, cMETus and a handful of others.

    You the installing contractor are solely responsible if you are installing un-approved fixtures and components.

    I too have been caught off-guard by this situation. Not that I have failed any inspections because of it, but in that I feel significantly led astray. It should be interesting to see how quickly they can get their act together and get the rest of the line approved. My big concern here is that the current ownership is not going to have deep enough pockets to pay the bill to bring all the listings up to date.

    For those of you in the USA... this is also of concern. You should NOT be installing any electrical components that are not properly listed for the intended application. To do so only opens yourself up to liability.

    Regards
     
  7. sal rodriguez

    sal rodriguez LawnSite Member
    Posts: 45

    It would be interesting to know if anyone can document a case or cases where unlisted outdoor lighting product caused structural or human casualty?
     
  8. sal rodriguez

    sal rodriguez LawnSite Member
    Posts: 45

    are you speaking of the company that nearly went under 1 yr ago?
     
  9. INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting

    INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting LawnSite Platinum Member
    Posts: 4,102

    Bottom line is that it is a requirement that you install only properly listed and approved electrical components. Ask any electrical inspector. If you do not you are accepting full and total liability for any failures. If you slough this off and say "who cares, nothing has ever happened" and "it" happens on one of your jobs, you will be held liable. Oh and don't forget that once your insurer finds out that you were not installing approved product they will not honour any claim and will void your policy.
     
  10. INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting

    INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting LawnSite Platinum Member
    Posts: 4,102

    Hey Sal, as a relatively new contributor here on Lawnsite, how about providing us with a bit more information about yourself and your business?

    Company Name?
    Experience?
    Area of expertise?
    Lighting experience?
    Interests?

    It is always nice to know the people you are engaged in a discourse with.

    Thanks.
     

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