# Lies and Deception among Hydroseeder Manufacturers

Discussion in 'Landscape Architecture and Design' started by turfquip, Jul 22, 2002.

1. ### turfquipLawnSite Senior Memberfrom Florence, KentuckyPosts: 860

Everyone says their's is better...shoots more per tankful...never clogs... etc., etc., etc.

The bottom line is this. If a job specs 1500 lbs. per acre and the mulch capacity of your 300 gallon machine is 100 lbs, then it's simple math...you're gonna squirt 3000 square feet, give or take a few feet.

Consider the math:

100lbs./1500lbs. = .067
.067 X 43,500 = 2,915 square feet coverage at the 1500 lb./acre rate

That's pretty close to 3000 square feet.

Now, if a manufacturer says 'their' machine will do 4000 square feet and the capacity of their 300 gallon machine is 100 lbs. then it's simply being applied at a lower rate. It has to be 'cause the numbers don't lie

Again, the math (the equation is set up a little different but algebra just the same)

4000 s.f. divided by 43,500 s.f. = .092 of an acre

100 lbs. divided by .092 acre = 1087 lbs. per acre.

That rate is too low and will not produce reliable results.

Now, you can achieve 4000 square feet at the 1500 lbs/acre rate if (and that's a big if) the machine will handle more mix per load.

How much more?

Let's do the math:

4000 divided by 43,500 = .092 of an acre

.092 times 1500 = 138 lbs per tankful.

Will 'their' 300 gallon machine do it? I wouldn't bet on it

2. ### turfquipLawnSite Senior Memberfrom Florence, KentuckyPosts: 860

Folks who are new to the business or who are contemplating hydroseeding as a future potential service add-on can sometimes be 'dazzled' by brand names that sound powerful and/or web sites that embellish a machine's ability.

As the post above illustrates, there's no tomfoolery with the numbers. There are 'fixed' algibraic relationships between the numbers that can't be altered.

The varables that need to be plugged in though are twofold:

a) the machine's mulch capacity and

b) the desired application rate

Comments? HTPA guys? Am I right on this or blowing hot air ;-)

3. ### AGLALawnSite Bronze Memberfrom Cape CodPosts: 1,756

hydroseeder manufacturer?
...not implying anything, just a question.

4. ### turfquipLawnSite Senior Memberfrom Florence, KentuckyPosts: 860

AGLA,

Not a manufacturer but we represent a couple of product lines.

I guess what I'm bitching about (if you can call it that) is the techniques some manufacturers use to get the sale.

I prefer an honest approach, using real numbers and not exaggerating a machine's capability.

Sometimes I lose the sale as a result and it just frustrates me that's all.

Thanks for listening

5. ### turfquipLawnSite Senior Memberfrom Florence, KentuckyPosts: 860

The word 'hydroseeder' is owned by the Finn Corporation in Fairfield, Ohio. As pioneers in the business, they've earned all the accolades received and more.

That's an important distinction. TurfQuip does not sell 'hydroseeders'. We sell 'hydroseeding machines'. I don't mean to imply that I promote products manufactured by the Finn Corporation .

Reminds me of one of my favorite lines in Eddie Murphy's "Coming to America" when the restaurant owner says: 'Their's is the Big Mac...Our's is the Big Mic'.

LOL

6. ### paulLawnsite Addictfrom Chicago,Ill.Posts: 1,625

A machines mulch capacity has little to do with application rate and more to do with the "Applicator"

Some firms do lead buyers on how many sq. ft. per tank their machine can do and it may be light, but I see LA's that still spec 1200 lbs of mulch per acre.

It's not so much as how much the machine can handle, but the labor that is required to place the necessary mulch and mixing times. Machines that mix faster and handle more mulch are more expensive to buy and keep up but are really cheaper to run. Labor being the more expensive than the cost of the equipment.

7. ### The Good EarthLawnSite Memberfrom Galloway, OhioPosts: 171

Turfquip,

Really you don't need to discuss mulch capacities in order to see through these companies marketing practices. Any company that starts the sales pitch with "you can make x amount of dollars with our machine" is full of ****. If this was a get rich quick proposition everybody and their mother would own a machine.

Just my opinion, I could be wrong!!

By the way, does anyone have a good contract that they use for residential jobs? Mine sucks!! Has more holes than a block of swiss cheese!!

8. ### Sean GassmanLawnSite Memberfrom Garland, TexasPosts: 77

Hey guys,
Been busy, just got back to check out the board. Everyone is correct here. It is both the mulch capacity and mix time. I think both are very important. I does't do any body any good if a machine can mix 4000 lbs of mulch , but takes twenty four hours to mix. Both play a role in what the applicator is trying to accomplish. As for the name.... HTPA has choosen to call it Hydro Turf Planting trying to stay away form any one machine or mulch name.

Just a little heads up, HTPA had elections in Feb. and I was re-elected. We have replaced two board member that were stopping certification and specifications. We had some delays in the replacement of our VP of finance but that has been resolved as of August 30. The board just put in some major time and will be putting several things into high gear. At this time, HTPA could have a certification program and General Specificaions completed in 6-12 months.