Liquid Sunshine

Discussion in 'Pesticide & Herbicide Application' started by Pilgrims' Pride, Apr 14, 2004.

  1. Pilgrims' Pride

    Pilgrims' Pride LawnSite Senior Member
    from MA.
    Posts: 481

    Some folks are asking is it ok to apply fert/dimension in the rain.
    I just remind them that the rain insures that the crabgrass control gets watered in and that it also moves fert into the soil so its ready when the sun comes out.


    Liquid Sunshine!

    If it ain't rain'n we ain't workin'

    There it is.

    Have a great day guys.
     
  2. KenH

    KenH LawnSite Bronze Member
    from CT
    Posts: 1,622

    As long as it is not raining too hard to wash material away.
     
  3. TSM

    TSM LawnSite Senior Member
    from MA
    Posts: 707

    heres a statistic for you guys who worry about product washing away.

    It would take 6 inches of rain per hour...thats per hour... to measure a trace..thats a trace, in other words to little to even get an accurate measure, of run off!

    6 inches per hour = a trace of run-off

    when would we ever see 6 inches per hour? maybe during a hurricane? and noone in there right mind is out appling fert in hurricane?
     
  4. KenH

    KenH LawnSite Bronze Member
    from CT
    Posts: 1,622

    Can I see the source for that statistic?? I can see that being true AFTER the product is applied, but I assume that would change if you were applying IN THE RAIN (as the poster had stated). We had some torrential rains here yesterday, no where near 6"/hour, and I could see water running off of my front yard. If I was applying anything in this rain, there is no doubt in my mind it would be carried away.
     
  5. Norm Al

    Norm Al LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,227

    CUSTOMERS worry about product washing away and being diluted!


    if the product did not dry before it rained it would be diluted!
     
  6. TSM

    TSM LawnSite Senior Member
    from MA
    Posts: 707

    kenh..i wont spend the time to dig out any particular study on run-off.
    you could do a google search and read thousands of 'theories' on how run-off is polluting the planet. these are environmentalist who base there findings on emotion not scientific fact.

    Or, you can search these universities, just to name a few, Rutgers, Purdue, Cornell, URI, UMass.

    I am a product of URI, we had test plots (30'X30' i think, I'm going back to the mid seventies here) some on level grade some on inclines (I wont say what degree of incline because i dont remember) we had a tough time getting 6 inches of water in 1 hour onto a plot but thats what it took to measure run-off.

    Now, I not here to argue with you. Fact is in torential rains, as you mentioned, most of the lawn care folks would not be out working in that weather, if for no other reason simply because of customer perception , not to mention its just miserable and difficult to get a uniform application applied.

    Now, Norm on the other hand, I'll argue his statement all day long. Diluted? nope. Take one ounce of product, any product, i dont care what it is. place that 1 ounce in a 10 gal bucket. What do you have? Well you got one ounce of whatever in a bucket. Now fill that bucket with 5 gals. water. Now what do you have? You got 5 gals water with 1 ounce of product, so top off that bucket with another 5 gals water. Now you got 10 gals water with 1 ounce of product. Put in as much or as little water as you'd like, you still have 1 ounce of active product
     
  7. KenH

    KenH LawnSite Bronze Member
    from CT
    Posts: 1,622

    Im not going to argue either, just some intelligent discussion.. I am a product of UConn, College of AG., and we both know the above is not a real world example. These test plots are usually well tended and tilled, meaning their rate of percolation is alot higher than that found on the average homeowner lawn. That being said, I still believe there is a tremendous opportunity for runoff when product is applied during rain. I do agree though that once the product is down and absorbed, runoff of product is minimal at best.

    I think what Norm was trying to get at was if you put 1 oz of product in a 1' by 1' square and dumped 5 gals. of water on it, then 10 gals, then 20 gals, that product would no longer be effective.

    Your example is a bad one being that the 1oz on product in a five gallon bucket is not going anywhere. Apply that same 1oz of product on a lawn, and wet the ...... out of it, you can bet it will be diluted, there is no other way.

    Im not arguing the runoff is a big problem, blah blah blah, but the original poster talked about applying in the rain, and I chimed in it wasnt always a good idea.



    From a UMass page: "Time your fertilizer applications. Fast-acting fertilizers should not be applied before a heavy rainfall."
     
  8. TSM

    TSM LawnSite Senior Member
    from MA
    Posts: 707

    Sorry KenH, I didn't realize you wanted an intellegent discussion, I'm not the sharpest knife in the kitchen;)

    Correct that test plots are well tended, but so are most lawns that we work on, not all, but most.

    But I guess what we are discussing is appling product in the rain. And I'd say yes, on some thin lawns with compacted soils there may be some runoff. Or, as in this weather pattern, several days of rain, soils are saturated, appling product while its raining on saturated soils there may be some runoff. But not any significant amount. But best to avoid application (if possible), not due to environmental concerns but due to customer perception.

    With phosphorus now getting much attention about runoff concerns very little, if any, from a lwan fertilization. Leaves being left by the curb in the fall would be a more significant source of soluable P getting into storm drains/waterways.

    Now, back to dilution. No more talk of buckets and lets increase your 1' x 1' square to 100' x 100' square of turf. 10,000sf and we apply a fertilizer at the rate of 1#N onto it. Then it rains 1". Are you saying the N is now diluted and wont be as effective?
     
  9. Norm Al

    Norm Al LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,227

    TSM you couldnt possibly be as dumb as the test you posted about the 5 gallon/10 gallon deal!


    there is a reason we have measurements for how much goes into a gallon of water!
     
  10. Ric

    Ric LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 11,957

    Gentlemen

    Fact: Average turf will only absorb 0.10 lbs on "N" Foliar in the first 24 to 48 hours. The rest of the product is fertigation of the soil. Water soluble fertilizer is subject to leaching and runoff any time. Applying liquid systemic Pesticides or Fertilizer to wet turf or watering it in will dilute it and decrease the amount of AI absorbed foliar.

    Contact liquid pesticides applied to wet turf or watered in will assist effectiveness by helping to spread it.
     

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