I wanna get in to bigger things, like real clearing jobs, grading prior to homes being built.. But nobody takes me seriously or thinks I can't do it because I don't own the equipment.
My question is, should I just go ahead and invest in say a dozer or 12ton trackhoe?
I've found a decent 550 case with 1800 hours for $16,500. I don't know if hours are true or not, but it looks to be in decent shape.
I've done a few jobs where it'd be nice to have a dozer or Ive had to turn it down because I don't have one..
I am bidding on a clearing job right now where I am looking at spending $2k on just a trackhoe rental. The dozer will be right around the same.. And I doubt I'll get it because guys who own the equipment can do it cheaper than that...
Only if that what you want todo. Owning machines like ain't cheap to keep up and move. Most guys that own these its all they do. Most builders don't trust landscapers to do grub outs
Dozer is so limited in what it can do and a 550 size dozer is a joke. A dozer is a grading machine, just because you can throw a rake on one and clear land doesn't mean it's the best tool to purchase. Excavator is so much more capable across the board, I'd be focused on purchasing something that does more than one task well. Think of all the guys on this forum and how much equipment they own; lots of excavators and skid steers, few backhoes, etc.. Very few of them own dozers, I know there are a few but those that do have a dozen other pieces of gear as well. A dozer, in my eyes, is a 3rd or 4th machine to add to the fleet. I don't know of anyone that makes a decent living with just a dozer, let alone a 550 that is a residential lot finishing machine.
Only if that what you want todo. Owning machines like ain't cheap to keep up and move. Most guys that own these its all they do. Most builders don't trust landscapers to do grub outs
Dozer is so limited in what it can do and a 550 size dozer is a joke. A dozer is a grading machine, just because you can throw a rake on one and clear land doesn't mean it's the best tool to purchase. Excavator is so much more capable across the board, I'd be focused on purchasing something that does more than one task well. Think of all the guys on this forum and how much equipment they own; lots of excavators and skid steers, few backhoes, etc.. Very few of them own dozers, I know there are a few but those that do have a dozen other pieces of gear as well. A dozer, in my eyes, is a 3rd or 4th machine to add to the fleet. I don't know of anyone that makes a decent living with just a dozer, let alone a 550 that is a residential lot finishing machine.
You absolutely could not go wrong with a 5 ton machine. I know out here, guys do real well with 35 size minis but in metropolitan areas, a 5' wide machine is pretty idea. If a 6'-6'6" wide machine doesn't sound too large, you can do quite a bit of work with a 50 size machine. I've done a lot of work with a 3 ton mini, can only imagine having had a 50 in some instances. A mini is handier than any machine out there, period.
I would never recommend to any one starting to just go out and buy a machine with hopes that they will pick up work because they own one. Go out line up a good amount of work and do a rent to own program. If the jobs you are going after are getting bid by guys for cheaper then the rent is, I wouldn't recommend trying to enter that particular market. Try to find a niche in your area and get involved in that.
I would never recommend to any one starting to just go out and buy a machine with hopes that they will pick up work because they own one. Go out line up a good amount of work and do a rent to own program. If the jobs you are going after are getting bid by guys for cheaper then the rent is, I wouldn't recommend trying to enter that particular market. Try to find a niche in your area and get involved in that.
Agreed, 5 years ago if you told me our family company would have a 16 and 18 ton excavator and a bunch of other CTLs, and small ex's we have now I would have started laughing and say keep dreaming.
Wish we had a 225 or 235 zero swing almost all the time now. Our jobs keep getting bigger and bigger and I have to take our 180 Doosan into pretty precarious situations and am almost always at the machines limit or beyond that.
Find your niche and run with it. There's always a better, faster way to do something if you think about it long enough.
If you're good at something many times people will call you, or a good reputation goes a long, LONG way.
I would never recommend to any one starting to just go out and buy a machine with hopes that they will pick up work because they own one. Go out line up a good amount of work and do a rent to own program. If the jobs you are going after are getting bid by guys for cheaper then the rent is, I wouldn't recommend trying to enter that particular market. Try to find a niche in your area and get involved in that.
I wanna get in to bigger things, like real clearing jobs, grading prior to homes being built.. But nobody takes me seriously or thinks I can't do it because I don't own the equipment.
If you look back in time many great things were built without all the fancy big rigs of today. Being serious takes way more then just owning the big machine, it takes the knowledge of doing the work. Not knowing your budget, machinery needs, and so on it's hard to give advice on what you should or should not own. You also have to remember with machinery comes maintenance, and how that maintenance gets done can make or break the bank. Are you mechanically inclined or would you be shelling out $$$$'s for a mechanic? Don't forget the price for parts, filters, oils.......
My question is, should I just go ahead and invest in say a dozer or 12ton trackhoe?
This here concerns me some, you want to jump in but aren't even sure which machine you need? I can write from personal experience and owning a few EX'es a couple dozer's and SS'es , I wouldn't get caught without an excavator. Now lets say you have decided on what machine best suits your needs, are you setup to haul it?
I've found a decent 550 case with 1800 hours for $16,500. I don't know if hours are true or not, but it looks to be in decent shape.
Have you done much with dozers, looks can and are usually deceiving especially when it comes to used dozers? Do you know how the machine was run, operated? I wouldn't worry about size so much for what your writing you want to start out doing. A good operator on a small dozer can run circles around a bad operator on a dozer twice the size. Most of all is this the type of machine that's going to give you the most bang for your buck?
I am bidding on a clearing job right now where I am looking at spending $2k on just a trackhoe rental. The dozer will be right around the same.. And I doubt I'll get it because guys who own the equipment can do it cheaper than that...
Once again which machine is going to be more versatile for your needs? Don't get me wrong a dozer is very useful but if I had to choose on only one machine my ex would be the keeper.
From what you've written(??) a mini ex would be a good start. I've owned EX'es from 4000lb up to 40,000+lbs they all have had their place. Depending on what your plans are something around 8000lbs to 10,000lbs would be a nice start BUT ONLY if that is the type of machine that will best suit your needs. A nice combo would be a tracked SS and a mini ex.
Junior M, I forgot something that might help you decide on a fair price, check out the machinerytrader site. You can search for equipment in your price range and area. You can also get an idea on what the going rate on certain machines run.
I don't really have a niche, or one particular thing I do.. I think that's why this has been such a hassle..
I just know I've put my neck out, bought equipment before I had work and it's worked out.. I get a lot of work just because people know I've got this tractor or that attachment.. But this time, I am just not sure it's the right one or thing to do.
Junior. I think we've had this discussion before with someone else. If I had things to do over, I'd definitely have rented before I bought things. I'd find my niche first if I had to do it over. Debt sucks.
Still, when things get slow, the weather sucks, or you get sick (we all get old or catch something), the machines will be sitting and you will still have insurance, debt notes (if you don't pay cash), and maintenance costs to contend with. It creates stress.
Find that niche. Rent until you are sure. People will take you seriously if you are knowledgeable and look clean. I don't think my arborist (he consults and doesn't climb) owns a pair of long pants but he's knowledgeable so he is taken seriously.
Maybe find someone that's slow or working alone and build an alliance. Hire them for the trackhoe work.. you run a dozer. I have an arrangement with a tree service that does my climbing and takedowns of large trees. It takes coordination and can get stressful when we are both busy on opposite ends of the city but it saves me from having full time climbers that I may or may not need that week.
Take some classes, subscribe to everything you can.. attend a trade show and practice where you can. That niche will find you if you are looking but someone else will show up and start filling that niche too so you have to keep growing/changing. Good luck!
around here good dozer operators are hard to find. Probably for all the reasons posted above. They are a niche machine it seems these days. The guys with a reputation as a top operator are very busy. The problem being to be a top operator doesn't come quick. I don't think I would go this route unless I had an opportunity to spend a good deal of time on someone else machine first. Also, from what I hear track maintenance can get very expensive fast on them. Good Luck,
Really hard to beat 953 for prepping lots unless they are really steep. You will have an easy 150k in a exc/dozer setup with a truck too pull it. Big step money wise and will require lots of work. In my opinion niche markets are the least stable financially. I prefer to be more diversified. It is hard too beat a 6 ton excavator and large CTL comb. Rent a big hoe for clearing lots and use the smaller stuff for grading. You will be surprised how much work you can do with a 6 ton hoe.
I really depends which niche market you are in, I know it may sound crazy but I have found a few and I am constantly expanding. It is good advice though not too out all your eggs in one basket.
Mabee a 8 tonne hoe is a good idea for you. Not a lot of guys around here have them. And it's a nice fit between a mini and larger ex
I really depends which niche market you are in, I know it may sound crazy but I have found a few and I am constantly expanding. It is good advice though not too out all your eggs in one basket.
Mabee a 8 tonne hoe is a good idea for you. Not a lot of guys around here have them. And it's a nice fit between a mini and larger ex
Niche markets usually have higher profit potential but that comes with greater risks and are rarely recession proof. Versatility allows you too take advantage of niche markets when they come along and rather than your work be limited by specialized equipment. For example mulching. Requires quite a commitment to be profitable and the equipment is limited too work scope it can do and if the market flops resale value is terrible.
Of course versatility is key, but some times having a few niche markets is much better then trying to run around and do every job that involves a machine that everyone and there brother can do.
Of course versatility is key, but some times having a few niche markets is much better then trying to run around and do every job that involves a machine that everyone and there brother can do.
Couldnt of said it better myself! All the "good ole boys" round here make it tough. All they wanna do is make a lil money and sit and drink beer all day and night.
Couldnt of said it better myself! All the "good ole boys" round here make it tough. All they wanna do is make a lil money and sit and drink beer all day and night.
They are a pain in the butt.. But a lot of times I am going back fixing the screw ups they won't come back on.. Or they didn't finish the job.. Makes me look better!
We all have them, but I don't sweat the guys who work for beer money or other low life's because I don't work for people that hire those people. If you want to get serious or be taken serious, you need to work for serious contractors and do work on real jobs. You need to find the contractors who are doing quality work and pimp your sister if you have to, but get on their jobs. That will give you an opportunity to shine (don't $uck it up) and you have more credibility in the construction community. That credibility builds on itself and things become much easier. Expect to be working on this issue for years.
Equipment:
Don't kill yourself with debt and I agree, payments suck and I have been making them since the day I started in 1995. I expect I will be till the day I throw in the towel. Be smart about it. Only you know what kind of debt you can reasonably carry. I like the RPO arrangement as well. It allows you to gain equity in your rental and to test the market in some areas without a payment book.
There are those that can make money with a dozer. Dozerman for example who is on this forum, appears to do well with a dozer and a CTL. Given what I think you want to do, I agree that a 50-55 sized mini ex can make money all day long, on a number of diverse jobs. I started with a 35 sized machine and that was a big jump from a BH skid steer attachment and renting BH's. However jumping up to the 53 size was one of the best things I have done equipment wise.
I would study your local market and find the holes in service. Investigate why no one is doing that, and what its earning potential would be, if it fits you line up some work and rent or buy the equipment and go to work. That's the start of working your way into the fabric of your local excavation ecosystem.
We all have them, but I don't sweat the guys who work for beer money or other low life's because I don't work for people that hire those people. If you want to get serious or be taken serious, you need to work for serious contractors and do work on real jobs. You need to find the contractors who are doing quality work and pimp your sister if you have to, but get on their jobs. That will give you an opportunity to shine (don't $uck it up) and you have more credibility in the construction community. That credibility builds on itself and things become much easier. Expect to be working on this issue for years.
Equipment:
Don't kill yourself with debt and I agree, payments suck and I have been making them since the day I started in 1995. I expect I will be till the day I throw in the towel. Be smart about it. Only you know what kind of debt you can reasonably carry. I like the RPO arrangement as well. It allows you to gain equity in your rental and to test the market in some areas without a payment book.
There are those that can make money with a dozer. Dozerman for example who is on this forum, appears to do well with a dozer and a CTL. Given what I think you want to do, I agree that a 50-55 sized mini ex can make money all day long, on a number of diverse jobs. I started with a 35 sized machine and that was a big jump from a BH skid steer attachment and renting BH's. However jumping up to the 53 size was one of the best things I have done equipment wise.
I would study your local market and find the holes in service. Investigate why no one is doing that, and what its earning potential would be, if it fits you line up some work and rent or buy the equipment and go to work. That's the start of working your way into the fabric of your local excavation ecosystem.
Unless your buying something pretty new it is hard to beat a KX-161. I do not like the older Cats or Bobcats.
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