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managerial analysis of mowing crews

Discussion in 'Business Operations' started by BradLewisLawnCare, Jun 12, 2012.

  1. FBT

    FBT LawnSite Member
    Posts: 155

    I'm not talking about sending another guy out on his own, the 2 guys work together. The investment is just another Scag 36. And we never have a guy standing around. If one guy is done before the other 2, he grabs another blower, or another string trimmer, or helps with the beds. Or if we're prunning and the 2 guys doing it are done they help the other guy clean up. And to get your route bigger and tighter, maybe charge a little less to get the new customers and then go up the ladder with them.
  2. SDLandscapes VT

    SDLandscapes VT LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 582

    I think that you might be looking at this equation and ignoring some rather important factors. Instead of looking at $ per man hour while the blades are running or $ per man hour solo vs. multiples why don't you look at it gross profit per hour or day and net profit per day. You will find crews with multiples score much better and larger crews do even better yet provided you have a tight route or bigger accounts. At the end of the day who cares what your guys grossed per hour--what was the gross profit margin/net profit margin? Arent we at this to make money?
  3. BradLewisLawnCare

    BradLewisLawnCare LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 279

    More revenue per man hour mean more profit holding man hours constant.man hours is a cost basis. So by increasing revenue per man hour you increase gpm and npm.
    Posted via Mobile Device
  4. 32vld

    32vld LawnSite Gold Member
    Posts: 3,984

    When employees are allowed to stand around with their thumb up their....... Time is wasted because of bad management.

    When I go out with a second man we always are going to the end. There is no spectating.

    One man crew leaves shop drives 1/4 hr mows a lawn 1 hr. At the end of 7.5 hrs he mowed 6 lawns @ $50 per lawn gross $300 for the day. Take away $100 salary $200 left over.

    Two man crew leaves shop drives 1/4 hr mows a lawn in .5 hr. At the end of 7.5 hrs they mowed 10 lawns @ $50 per lawn gross $500 for the day. Take away $200 salary $300 left over.

    Yes one man billed out more per man, $300 for the day.
    Where the two man crew billed out $250 each.

    But at the end of the day the two man crew cleared $100 dollars more after salaries were paid. And they did it with one truck one trailer one large mower one small mower one edger/trimmer one blower.

    To send out two 1 man/solo crews All the trucks trailers and everything else has to bought in double and then carry the added expense and maintenance all on less money that the one man crew clears after salary is taken out.

    I guess Brickman is going to be going belly up soon.

    There were about 2,500 automobile manufactures in America. If being small was better why did all but the biggest company's fail.

  5. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 12,353

    Good to see at the very minimum you understand what I am referring to and know what you're talking about and aiming at. No many in this thread do.

    Can you explain to me the difference between gross profit and net?

    Can you define net profit for me?
  6. SDLandscapes VT

    SDLandscapes VT LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 582


    There is a well regarded industry consultant name J P Lamarche and he would love to discuss with you. I once thought the same way that you did, but trust me no matter what your accounting tells you one man crews will put you out of business--certainly 1 man crews are the most efficient I will agree to that, and as you add people you lose efficiency sure, but you increase the number of billable hours per day. If you put more people on the same crew you are doing more gross revenue with the same overhead thus increasing your gross and net profit margins one three man crew vs 3 one man crews. Brickman works for a reason and many other large companies do this too. Trust me I thought exactly the way you did and was heading that way--as you grow and add equipment to cover all that you add so much overhead that it very much ruins your bottom line.

    I ll ask this question how much gross revenue per truck are you doing?
  7. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 12,353

    Never heard of him\her. What is his\her history? Is he\she only a consultant? Ever run a successful landscape business? Sold out? Closed doors before the bank did it for him\her?

    Consultants are consultants for a reason.

    Brickman has multiple person crews because they hire minimum wage employees and can make it up--sort of--in volume. I would also hazard a guess that they have different crews doing different things at some\many of their customers, especially the ones they actually are trying to make look good.

    1 man crews are going to run one out of business? Horse hockey. You even said it, if they are the most efficient, how are they going to put you out of business? If you are adding overhead but losing money, then there is a problem with your pricing or production.

    The idea of this or any business is profit. Revenue does not equal profit. Increasing revenue by adding people does not necessarily increase profit. You state this point yourself. Your post contradicts itself.

    This is basic math, no Masters or PHD needed. Well, and a basic understanding of accounting.

    These kinds of posts are why we are not looked at as professionals. I have had similar discussions at plowsite regarding hourly rates and so many people just don't get it. Same thing in this thread.
  8. Get Some...

    Get Some... LawnSite Senior Member
    from Kansas
    Posts: 651

    My analyasis revealed that my old butt is not as tired after mowing all my lawns if I have a helper.

    It was not a scientific study.....
  9. 32vld

    32vld LawnSite Gold Member
    Posts: 3,984

    Difference between net and gross?

    I ask a better question. Is it better to send out one man with a truck trailer and equipment and have him clear $200 for you or would you be better off sending two men out with the same truck trailer and equipment and have them clear $300 for you?

    I'll take the $300 from the two man crew.

    What is GROSS PROFIT: is thinking that $200 return from the the same truck trailer and equipment is better then getting $300. Can't paint a grosser image then that.

    Numbers don't lie but liars use numbers to lie.

    You are blinded by that the solo man makes $300 for the day while the two man crew each only $250 for the day. You can call that more efficient all day, every day.

    But at the end of the week that solo man only made you $1,000 for the week.

    While the two man crew would of made me $1,500 a week.

    You can keep your distorted sense of greater efficiency.

    I'll take my sense of greater efficiency and the extra $500 a week in my pocket that the two man crew earned.

  10. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 12,353

    So 32vld, you say liars use numbers to lie, but you are the one using the numbers. I find this very humorous.

    You also failed to answer the question I posed, I am guessing, based on the rest of your reply, you don't know the difference between gross and net. You proved that with the rest of your answer.

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