Masonry installation idea...good or bad?

Discussion in 'Hardscaping' started by Captains Landscape, Sep 19, 2007.

  1. Captains Landscape

    Captains Landscape LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 333

    I was thinking about a upcoming patio we will be doing, thermal bluestone over a concrete slab. Has anyone ever thought about screeding out the mortar with pipes to achieve uniform height? I cant spot any problem with this technique vs. by hand trowel application. Thoughts, ideas...?
     
  2. mrusk

    mrusk LawnSite Gold Member
    Posts: 3,260

    Maybe your not ready for a wet layed job. I have always been told mortar is not strong unless its compressed. THat why when a mason is building a wall or water ever he always taps the block, stone, brick, down. It compresses the mortar and makes it strong.

    Screeding the mortar will not work for several other reason. How big is the patio?
     
  3. BrandonV

    BrandonV LawnSite Platinum Member
    Posts: 4,260

    you screed your concrete the mortar is more like glue but can be used for a little leveling, get your base level just like in pavers
     
  4. Captains Landscape

    Captains Landscape LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 333

    Should I tell the customer that? I believe you just finished your first wet-lay patio.....I'm not trying to get height out of my mortar, it would just be a bonus. Why is it not the same? Dead blow to the bluestone? We always screed our concrete, I'm VERY comfortable with getting my base level. what would the difference be?
     
  5. mrusk

    mrusk LawnSite Gold Member
    Posts: 3,260

    You need to hit the blue stone with the dead blow. Its not like laying on sand. If you do not hit the stone with the dead blow chances are the stone will not adhere correctly with the mortor.
     
  6. Captains Landscape

    Captains Landscape LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 333

    Right, so as we lay one guy setting stone with a dead-blow. Screeding should compact the mortar..... shouldn't it?
     
  7. Picture Perfect Pavers

    Picture Perfect Pavers LawnSite Member
    Posts: 58

    As a bricklayer cement finisher first and a hardscaper second. I suggest that you do not screed mortar and set your bluestone. I agree if your concrete slab is done correctly it should create the pitch you need. By screeding mortar the way you are thinking it will make your bluestone slip and slide all over. Also when you hit the bluestone the mortar will have nowhere to go. It will come up on the sides of the stone and create a problem when you do the joints.You can make a notched screed and leave high/low spots like you would lay tile or you can dab the mortar and then set the stone. A bricklayer when spreading mortar always leaves and or creates a void so as the brick is leveled/ set the mortar has somewhere to go. Treat the blustone like tile and use bonding agent or milk as it is referred to between the mortar and the slab. Depending on the size of the slab you may want to put in some control joints.
    You can also make a portland water mix and brush it on the back of the stone prior to setting them. You can also sprinkle dry portland on the mortar so the wet stone and dry portland make a connection.
     
  8. mrusk

    mrusk LawnSite Gold Member
    Posts: 3,260

    This is why wet layed work cost so much more to produce.
     
  9. Captains Landscape

    Captains Landscape LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 333

    Thank you, that I understand. I just want to make it clear I never intended to use anything but the slab to set my pitch. Do you really think I will need a bonding agent? I'm poring the slab myself, it will be pretty clean. If I do need the bonding agent could you explain what it does and who sells it. I asked about the control joints in another post and have that figured out. Thank you
     
  10. Captains Landscape

    Captains Landscape LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 333

    Rusk:
    My intention is not to half ass the job, I understand how laborious real masonry can be. Probably as you are, I was a paver guy first and now leaning masonry. I always ask my questions here rather than experiment at clients homes.
     

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