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Maybe this is a dumb question

Discussion in 'Water Features' started by EgansCountryGardens, Feb 23, 2006.

  1. EgansCountryGardens

    EgansCountryGardens LawnSite Member
    Posts: 163

    I don't know if this is a dumb question, but here goes. I've done a few ponds, and used the aquascape system for most of them, but instead of sealing your liner into the faceplate of the skimmer or water fall box for that matter, why can't you just run the liner under the box and up the back higher than the box itself? Seal all your flexible pipes into the back of the boxes but let them run up out of the water behind the boxes, and cover with rocks or berm? I all alleviates the problem of leaking seals on the liners. Will this work? Anybody done this? :dizzy:
  2. n2h20

    n2h20 LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 503

    i have not done that but have thought about it many times before. It seems like it would eliminate the potential for problems later down the road.
  3. PSUturf

    PSUturf LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 663

    That would make it harder to build the infamous waterfall volcano which is a good thing. You would need more soil/rocks above and behind falls box to hide flex pipe if it came out the top. Sounds like a good idea.
  4. Venturewest

    Venturewest LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 513

    I recently attended a pond build day with equipment other than Aquascape, but basically the same system. The installation method you mentioned is exactly what they did. Unless the liner gets a hole there is no way the pond can leak anywhere. I have not actually done a pond yet, but I have been researching it extensively and it seems like there are alot of great manufacturers out there other than Aquascape, for a fraction of the cost. We are fortunate enough to have one of the 5 largest wholesale distributors in the U.S. about 30 miles away.
  5. dzs1945

    dzs1945 LawnSite Member
    Posts: 74

    would like to know what brand that was. Sounds like a good idea but on the other hand if it were that simple would'nt Aquascape do it that way? daniel
  6. BSDeality

    BSDeality LawnSite Silver Member
    Posts: 2,850

    the last aquascape build-a-pond our leader told us he has done quite a few where everything is inside the liner, however they still teach the attach-to-the-faceplate method.
  7. Victor

    Victor LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,637

    That's a great question. By setting up the pond that way, you would eliminate the risk of a leaking faceplate, but I were building the pond, I wouldn't do it that way. The problem with doing that, would be all of the "dead water" spaces you'd have around the skimmer box. All of that submerged gravel around the skimmer box would create a lot of pockets of water that wouldn't move much, if at all (in other words.. "dead water"). When that happens, you've just created a breeding ground for anaerobic bacteria. Anaerobic bacteria forms when organic matter in your pond starts to rot. If you had all of that gravel in the skimmer box area, any organic material that became trapped between the gravel stones, would just sit there and rot (unless your customers went through the trouble of removing the gravel and cleaning the area out). Having high levels of anaerobic bacteria in a fish pond is bad, because it consumes dissolved oxygen, just like your fish do. If a power failure happens on a hot day and your customer has overcrowded their pond. The dissolved oxygen levels in their pond could drop to dangerous levels. That's one of the reasons a lot of pond-building experts (for fish ponds), recommend against lining ponds (especially the floors) with gravel. For a watergarden, I can't remember ever reading anyone saying it was a bad idea. I will say this though. If you're putting a skimmer in the pond. Lessening maintenance IS an issue. If maintenance is an issue, you'd be increasing the work load for the pond owner by laying the liner that way. Even if they don't keep fish, if enough gunk builds up in the gravel, because they aren't regular enough with cleaning the area around their skimmer box out, things could still get pretty scummy.

  8. YardPro

    YardPro LawnSite Gold Member
    Posts: 3,563

    i realixe you are the koi pond guru, but you just made an incorrect statment.
    I have a degree in biology, and was for a short time a biologist.

    you just said
    "Having high levels of anaerobic bacteria in a fish pond is bad, because it consumes dissolved oxygen, just like your fish do"

    that is totally wrong.
    ANAEROBIC bacteria DO NOT consume oxygen... that is the whold definition of anaerobic. it means "absence of oxygen".
    anaerobic bacteria do not use oxygen for thier metabolisim. They only grow in areas where there is no (or very low levels) of dissolved oxygen in the water.
    what cuases the o2 levels to drob are aerobic organisms.
  9. Victor

    Victor LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,637

    You're right. I was wrong about why anaerobic bacteria is not something you want in a fish pond. Anaerobic bacteria function in the absense of oxygen, they don't consume it. I had that misconstrued. Between the two of us, there's only one biologist and it's clearly not me.

    They're bad for fish ponds in other ways. Anaerobic bacteria is definitely not something you want in a fish pond though (not just a koi pond, but a FISH pond). The following quote tells why.

    Nitrificating bacteria reproduce slowly, it can take between 1 and 2 months for a biological filter to start to produce enough bacteria to sustain a pond system. To avoid dangerously high levels of toxic waste levels in a pond, do not add to many fish at one time and do not switch the filter system off for an extended length of time. Nitrificating bacteria will die after only a few hours without oxygen, leaving behind ANAEROBIC BACTERIA. ANAEROBIC BACTERIA is toxic to fish and is a common cause of disease in fish. A dirty pond/filtration system can harbor ANAEROBIC BACTERIA and koi diseases such as outbreaks of parasite infestation and bacterial problems may occur.

    Thank you again Yardpro for educating me on that. While I absolutely love reading and learning all I can about ponds, I still have LOTS to learn, but that's what I enjoy. Learning new things about ponds, how to properly construct them and their biology. :)

  10. thartz

    thartz LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 486

    Have any of you had leaks around the faceplate ? I have not but now you have me curious.

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