Mtl Or Skid Steer

Discussion in 'Heavy Equipment & Pavement' started by Canon Landscaping, Oct 20, 2005.

  1. Canon Landscaping

    Canon Landscaping LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 259

    I am in the market for a new skid steer and I have been looking at the Deere 325 and 322 (MTL) My question is would I be better off with a skid steer with over the tire tracks or a mtl. I operate a supply yard and a excavation/landscape company. I will be using the new machine for grading, harley raking, loading top soil and loading mulch and stone at the yard during the busy season. The deere dealer is trying to talk me into a skid steer with tracks instead of the mtl.
     
  2. vntgrcr

    vntgrcr LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 282

    Coming from the owner of a CAT MTL, I would say that you should stick with a rubber tired machine. Going with what kind of work/conditions you are working in, RTL is the way to go. Also, less upfront $$ and less maintenance in the long run. Good luck
    David
     
  3. Squizzy246B

    Squizzy246B LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 837

    If you operate on hard surfaces, pavement etc defintely stick with the tyre machine. Perhaps you could look at the loegering system:

    http://www.loegering.com/VTS.htm
     
  4. Canon Landscaping

    Canon Landscaping LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 259

    How long do the MTL tracks last? And what is the cost of replacing them vs
    a skid steer with over the tire tracks?
     
  5. Scag48

    Scag48 LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 6,067

    At most, 1,500 hours if you're strictly on non abrasive surfaces. I'd say average life span is around 1,000-1,200 hours and they're about $4000-$5000 to replace, OEM mind you. You might be able to get a cheaper brand of track, but usually the OEM's will be of higher quality and of perfect fit.
     
  6. Tigerotor77W

    Tigerotor77W LawnSite Bronze Member
    from Germany
    Posts: 1,891

    If you're working in a yard, you do NOT want steel OTT (over the tire) tracks... not good. Although rubber tracks, such as the ones Deere has, are better, I would still wonder why you'd want to use tracks at all if you do a lot of yard work. It sounds to me like a skid-steer or AWS machine would be best -- unless the jobs you listed aren't all the jobs you'd be doing as the excavating company.
     
  7. Canon Landscaping

    Canon Landscaping LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 259

    We don't do a lot of work on established turf we mostly do lawn installs, land clearing / site work but we have a dozer for the heavy stuff. I am looking for a machine that will perform in soft and muddy conditions but at the same time still be able to perform task at the supply yard like moving pallets and loading mulch. The reaon I was looking at the deere 322 is because it has the 320 ssl frame but with a little more lifting a break out power.
     
  8. mrusk

    mrusk LawnSite Gold Member
    Posts: 3,260

    I'm debating the mtl vs skid steer issue also. In the spring i'm going to buy something. My business is 90% hardscapes. Hopefully it will be 100% next year. I do not even want to to lawn installs. I realize a tracked machine will be easier on turf and have better traction in sticky situations. But often i will be unloaded pallets of block and pavers of my truck and trailer on pavement. Also i always have the stone, dirt, quarry process dropped on the driveway. So i am going to be driving on pavement a decent amount of the time.

    One more thing, when ever i do a job i have to drive a machine over the lawn, it is not just 1 or 2 trips. Its normally 15-25 minimum. No matter what i use, the turf will be ripped up.

    Since i do hardscapes, i need a machine that can some what safetly lift and move 3700 lbs pallets of block, so i need a pretty big machine. Going wheeled over mtl will give me more money to put towards a larger machine. I'm looking at 248/252 cats.

    I am 85% sure i am going with a wheeled skid steer.

    Matt
     
  9. Tigerotor77W

    Tigerotor77W LawnSite Bronze Member
    from Germany
    Posts: 1,891

    For you both, I would heavily suggest the Bobcat A300.

    Canon, I would spec an A300 with turf tires for you. Although turf tires don't give the best bite in deep mud, I believe you will notice a distinct improvement in damage to those established turf areas. Also, the A300 will provide better visibilty to the wheels, and dramatically increased visibility once the boom arms are raised. At truck-bed level height, the Deere and Bobcat have about similar visibility out the side (Bobcat slightly better), but if you are carrying a load, the Deere will be right in your face as you look out the side. As you demo, I suggest you compare this feature.

    Mrusk -- same premise of turf tires applies to you. With an all-wheel steer machine, you can turn without scraping turf, as you would with a SSL or CTL/MTL (even if you do three-point turns). Since you want to be doing most of your work on pavement, a tacked machine will burn its tracks quickly if you do a lot of aggressive skidding. Although operators can be careful, there is no question that tires are more suited for hard, level surfaces. With the A300, you don't be able to avoid entirely ripping up the turf -- what you will be able to do is minimize the damage. If, say, you had to replace the turf entirely before, it may be that with wider tires and not skidding, you may not have to replace the turf -- just "fluff it up" or let it sit for a few days.

    For both of you, a 2000 pound ROC machine may be pushing the safety limits. A 248 may not be able to handle the 3,700 pound pallets as comfortable as you would like (see squizzy's rebuttal to my post at http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=119361&page=2 ) -- especially because you'll be removing them from truck beds. The 252 should probably be okay. However, I'm still inclined to suggest the A300 above all else for your situation... it's a lot more expensive, but it's also a lot more machine. To top it off, the AWS machine will reduce your expenditures on wheels... believe it or not, all the skidding you do is usually on your front wheels or rear wheels -- front wheels especially if you do a lot of heavy-lifting. As you raise the load, (usually) more weight gets shifted to the front tires... causing them to be the "pivot point" of the machine. Therefore, as you back away from the truck and begin to turn, the front wheels tend to scuff. Hence the torn-up asphalt on hot days, or the black marks on concrete.
     
  10. mrusk

    mrusk LawnSite Gold Member
    Posts: 3,260

    Bobcat250-
     

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