1. plowking35

    plowking35 LawnSite Bronze Member
    from S.E. CT
    Posts: 1,687

    Ok John asked, and I will tell. The other thread is getting long, so I thought I would start another one.<br>First with out beating a dead horse. THE NEW DURAMAX DIESEL IS 100% AMERICAN MADE PARTS AND LABOR. It will be made here, and was designed here. Isuzu engineers had input, and probably alot of input, but the final product is american. Most vehicles today are a global project, and I applaud gm for designing a cutting edge engine. Isuzu has been making aluminum head engines for years, used in extreme conditions with excellent results. i believe they will hold up fine.<br>Now for my truck, here are the specs<br>1998 k-3500 4x4 cab chassis, long wheel base, 6.5 diesel, auto,ac,cruise, tilt,cheyanne package.<br>I payed $ 24,700 for the truck. i added a l pack tool box which was $ 2000.00 and $ 4000.00 for the dump body and hoist assembly.<br>the truck was out the door for $ 31000 plus tax. With my trade I financed $ 30,500 for 5 yrs @ 5.9% with a monthly payment of about $ 580.00<br>the next nearest price was 27,700 from a gmc dealer, I bought from a commercial dealer, who worked on salary not commision, so he sold it to me for 500 over their cost, plus the 3% hold back that all dealers make. The truck came from a chassis pool, and I saw it for the first time, 2 weeks after I made my first payment. Aside from a pitman arm the truck has been flawless.<br>The closest price on a comparable ford or dodge was 35,700.<br>I also dont think that when you buy a new truck you should have to drop 600 big ones on a tranny upgrade. Either put the right tranny in it or DONT SELL IT.<br>We will see in 2002 when dodge gets the allison T-1000. Now when you buy a dodge with a ford owned engine maker, a gm owned tranny maker, and a ford owned axel co, you wont be able to complain about a isuzu engineered engine. Who makes that didge truck anyway? The competition makes more of the truck then dodge does. Now if only cummins would allow a real truck co to have the engine, ummmmmmmm<br>Try this one on for size.<br>the 6.2 and 6.5 has been and always will be a true diesel engine. While the 6.9 started life as a gas engine. Just a thought.<br>Also with out GM and the 6.2 being an option in the early 80's there may not be a diesel engine market today. So all hail GM for starting the diesel market.<br>Dino <p>----------<br> Professional Ice and Snow Management <br>Products:Services:Equipment www.sima.org
     
  2. GeoffDiamond

    GeoffDiamond LawnSite Bronze Member
    from Maine
    Posts: 1,651

    Ford built a 6.9 diesel a long time ago. It was one big pile of sh!t. Is that the engine that started as a gas engine? Or are ya talking about the cummings 5.9? <p>Like i said i think that new chevy will be a great truck for you chevy guys.<p>If dodge is adding an alison trans with diesel, and chevy is, it i bet Ford has it in the works.<p>When it comes to truck building it's gets even weirder. OK<br>Ford Used to build the Stearling line of trucks (the old L-series and aero-max ford's commercial market) They sold their commercial market share to Freightline. Who is owned by Dimeler ( if i spelled that right) who also owns dodge and all it's other brands. So now the same company that owns the maker of the ram, all produces the Ford Commercial Line that was left almost unchanged. <p>Geoff<br>
     
  3. plowking35

    plowking35 LawnSite Bronze Member
    from S.E. CT
    Posts: 1,687

    The 6.9 international started as a gas engine, and the 7.3 was a dirivitive of the 6.9, thus the PS started out as a gas engine.<br>The cummins always has been a diesel.<br>0k the cummins that is offered in the 650 is a 5.9 liter that is the same as the dodge offers. <br>I think you need to check cummins, Ford bought back in the late 90's.<br> <br>Dino<p>----------<br> Professional Ice and Snow Management <br>Products:Services:Equipment www.sima.org<br>
     
  4. paul

    paul Lawnsite Addict
    Posts: 1,625

    Boy this is getting deep :)<br>Anyways Ford does not own Cummins they owned a 20% share in the early 90s then sold it. <br>Next Navastar (formerly IH) builds the 7.3 for Ford, You can still get a 6.9 Cummins in the Ford 650 and up class also CAT motors are offered in the same line.<br>Transmissions<br>Alison owned by GM, GM never saw the need for a small diesel transmission untill Ford and Dodge started putting the higher torque motors in their pickup, they had a transmission that would have worked but not many people wanted to shift a auto trans and it had no parking brake feature. Allison sell their transmission to all truck makers, Ford in their F650 and up class,Mack, Freightliner, Peterbuilt, ect. Most larger trucks are custom order, you pick the spring, the axles,the suspension, transmission, the motor, plus all the goodies, sometimes its like going to the smorgasboard you get a little of this a little of that soon you have a truck.<br>Now the big question are the prices too high?<p>----------<br>paul<br>
     
  5. GeoffDiamond

    GeoffDiamond LawnSite Bronze Member
    from Maine
    Posts: 1,651

    It a Cummings 5.9 in the F 650 not a 6.9. Also the last i heard Ford now owns 100% of cummings, i thought they bought them out in sept or oct of 99.<p>I also have a F 650 with the cat 3126 B and an allison auto trans. So go figure<p>Geoff<br>
     
  6. plowking35

    plowking35 LawnSite Bronze Member
    from S.E. CT
    Posts: 1,687

    Geoff you rock, thanks for getting my back.<br>Dino
     
  7. John DiMartino

    John DiMartino LawnSite Silver Member
    Posts: 2,555

    Dino,the stocker is ok for stock motors.I'm was a GM man remember.I chose the right truck for me,and 600 is nothing compared to what I would have had to do to a 6.5 to get it to run like mine did stock,and I worked on 6.5's as well,so I know about their high failure rate including head gaskets and broken head bolts.To hop that motor up you need to throw it away and start with the marine motor,then add mechanical pump (which is prohibited by law on 94 and newer) that is why Jim B's truck is an 89.Then add an intercooler and hop up trans anyway,radiator is too small,new exhaustAfter that waste of money it will still get smoked by a Cummins with a 275 dollar torque plate and a walker muffler I'm glad you like yours and GM makes in my opinion the most reliable truck,but there was no Cummins option or a Cat either.I didn't want a slow diesel and I have hotrodded everything I own,so that is why 600 was a good deal for me.Add the fact that I bought it 2 years old for 4500 under book,and Dodge diesels get book + around here,a Xcab 2500 LB is impossible to find used and clean.I might've been driving a 6.5 if I got a good enough deal,but I'd need to hop it up so I'll have to add that to the budget.Dont beat the dead horse anymore,I know as much about the new engine as you,I surf to 62-65 page.I just wont buy one,go ahead and get inline.If a Cat,yes.Isuzu is world leader in little smokey 3.9 NPR's and in europe with little 3.1's.The leader in real diesels(the ones we use above 200HP)is Cummins.Have you ever been behind an NPR?They belch smoke and cant get out of there own way.Ironic that emmisions are whats holding up the D-max,I'm not surprised at all.I know it doing well in testing,but I have this thing about them and I doubt anyone south of Maryland (rednecks)will buy one either.If it were a joint venture with CAT it would say CAT on the fender,with Isuzu they hide the name under the D-max badge.I may be weird but I'll pass,BTW Ford doesn't own any part of Cummins.<p>----------<br>John D<br>
     
  8. John DiMartino

    John DiMartino LawnSite Silver Member
    Posts: 2,555

    The 5.9 in the F650 is a higher torque version of the one in my 2500.It's a good engine for a local truck or rental.Geoff,where did you get info on who owns Cummins?I have stock in them and to my knowledge Ford appears nowhere on there as stockholders.Dino Dodge built my truck in St Louis,with an engine from columbus, ohio and with axles from Dana and case from NV gear in syracuse NY.Your motor didnt get built with the truck either.It was built under license from Detriot Diesel,cheapened so much that they wouldn't let GM put the name DD on it and sent to you with thin wall castings that will leave you wishing you had gone with the 350 if you get it too hot.BTw the low boost is to keep the headgaskets from blowing out the sides as well as the crank from coming through the pan.LOL I'm having fun with this, Im not trying to aggravate you.Dino,I'm ready to ty an edge,Ill E you private.<p>----------<br>John D<br>
     
  9. GeoffDiamond

    GeoffDiamond LawnSite Bronze Member
    from Maine
    Posts: 1,651

    Well John i can be wrong.<p>I got my info from a friend so it's not an official source. <p>Only i do find that it's possible for Ford too own cummings.<p>The reasons:<br>Why would you want 3 engines on the 650/750 platform ( ever heard of value engineering?)<p>Why not use two cat motors to have somethine equal to the 5.9 cummings<p>Or have international build a motor like the cummings.<p>Ford has a diesel avaible in the rangers sold outside of north america. ( 2.0 or 2.5 i think. someone other than Ford must be building this enginer)<p>The point i am trying to make is that if ford didn't own cummings they probably wouldn't be useing their motor, i think they would probably contract cat or internation to build them another motor or use one of cat's or international's other motors.<p>Sorry for the unofficial source.<p>Geoff<br>
     
  10. plowking35

    plowking35 LawnSite Bronze Member
    from S.E. CT
    Posts: 1,687

    Well if you were to take the difference between the cost of my 6.5 and the PS or cummins new. ANd added that to my 6.5 we would have comparable engines. Now that being said I dont think that you should have to do that. GM is definitly behind in diesel tech. However you are wrong about the emissions. Dodge and Ford actually are the ones behind in emissions. They are reworking their diesels to meet the stricter guidlines for up to 10000gvw. the new duramax is also tune able. When you read about the tech that will be in the duramax it is mind blowing. It will be a nitemare to work on and diagnose. But when it all works together it should be amazing. Every once in awhile gm does something right, maybe this will be it. I mean it even has a fuel cooler to help atomise the fuel better. But more sensors and computers than you can shake a stick at.<br>I just hate to see a product beat down before it is even out. And I was pretty sure that all ext cab dodges came from mexico, then sent to St Luis for drivetrain.<br>Heres something else to think about, Ford is looking into buying penske, which owns detriot diesel. Now that is weird.<br>I do believe that ford owns cummins, I will look into it, I am rarley wrong about these things. The big rumor was that since ford owned cummins, they would put that 5.9 into the sd. that was wrong, but you can see why it was believable if ford did own cummins.<br>Dino <p>----------<br> Professional Ice and Snow Management <br>Products:Services:Equipment www.sima.org
     

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