Need help for CGM/fertilization program

Discussion in 'Organic Lawn Care' started by mikesturf, Dec 22, 2003.

  1. Dchall_San_Antonio

    Dchall_San_Antonio LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 327

    I used CGM a couple years ago. I applied 15 pounds per 1,000 square feet in mid Feb (we have a really early spring, here in San Antonio). I let it sit dry for three weeks until it rained.

    Results: Three weeks after it rained, my grass looked like it was on steroids. I could have mowed it twice a week but I resisted the urge. Color was deep dark green. I've never seen any fertilizer results anything like that. I did not notice any increase in density - my yard is in 90% shade so density is a problem here. I did not notice any decrease in weeds, but then again, I don't normally have summer weeds. At the time I thought I was applying it for the spring weeds, but I have learned since that the spring weed seeds sprout in the fall, so I was about 4 months late for that application.

    From what I've read, a good application rate to keep the weeds down is 30-40 pounds of CGM per 1,000 square feet. If I applied it at 15 #/ksqft, I can't imagine what would happen at 30-40 #/ksqft!!! Some places that application rate is affordable and some it is not. Ohio and Kentucky seem to have CGM for about $6/100 pounds. Look at feed stores and farmers' co-ops for the best prices.
     
  2. mikesturf

    mikesturf LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 793

    I got one price for $36/100 pounds. Still looking for a good source.
     
  3. Dchall_San_Antonio

    Dchall_San_Antonio LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 327

    My best price is $20/30 pounds. Still looking for a good source myself!
     
  4. thill

    thill LawnSite Member
    Posts: 245

    I read this entire thread with a lot of interest. I then tried to understand the numbers with some success. I then had to admit that I could not find just what "CGM" means.

    Could some one splain what CGM is to this dummy?

    I really like this new forum and am trying to get a basic understanding of "organic programs".

    I will experment with my own yard to learn before I try "new" methods with my clients.

    I started with a fall application of corn gluten in my front yard and chemical winterizer and pre-emergent in the back yard. It ain't scientific but I will know a lot more about it this spring.

    Thanks to Dave and the rest of you guys for the education process.

    Tom
     
  5. trying 2b organic

    trying 2b organic LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 566

    plz let us know how the Corn Gluten Meal (cgm) works for you, i have to pay a lot for my pellet form cgm right now and i pass it along to the customer. Its 30$ a 50lb bag. Its for people who want less weeds without pesticides. as stated it is also a wonderful source of nitrogen. The morons in the provincial legislature havnt put in on the exempted list so since i dont have a pesticide licence i sell it has a fetilizer (with benificial side effects and here are the studies to prove them)

    remember not to use cgm when u are planning an overseed. great product, organic weed and feed. as supply increases price will drop and it will become more available. as with all organic products there is no big money behind it to anounce it to the world as the way to have a nice, weed free lawn. one customer at a time for now.
     
  6. pete of hertige,

    most of natural organics applied at 1 lbs/m will last @ 8 weeks when soil temp is greater than 55 degrees
     
  7. heritage

    heritage LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,263

    Hello Timturf,
    Thank for that bit of info on the CGM. The application rate of CGM to prevent crabgrass germination has raised a concern and I would like your input.

    So I decide to make an application of CGM before soil temps hit 55F and I apply it at the 20Lb.per 1000sq ft rate. All of the applied nitrogen will be available to the plant in aproxx 8 weeks.
    That # comes out to be 1Lb. of actual N per month 2 months in a row. Tim here is my concern.....Here in new jersey we have cool season turf...KBG,PR,TF,Fine Fescues on our home lawns. I am a firm believer in appling 2/3rds of the annual nitrogen in the fall and 1/3rd in the spring. (Here I apply about 4 Lbs total per year.)

    So I just applied 2 Lbs of Act. N in my spring app. of CGM and here is what may come next......Leaf Spot,Brown Patch,Pythium. Mabey less red thread(depending on soil calcium levels).
    Do you see where I am going with this. We as fine turf managers are always thinking proactively as to prevent potential problems and employ Intergrated Pest Management Techniques whenever possable.

    Before I sent you this reply I had to do a bit of research on Corn Gluten Meal and Corn Meal. They are not the same....CGM will not grow Trichoderma spp. which would suppress most of the above mentioned turf diseases. Corn Meal on the other hand would Grow Trichoderma and this could conteract the heavy application of spring nitrogen....Too bad it does not work as a pre-emergent.

    What do you think about this?

    How much N do you apply annually and when. Here is my ratio....1st app .5Lb / 2nd app .75Lb / 3App .5Lb / 4Th App 1 Lb / 5Th App 1.5 Lbs. 1-2nd app 4 weeks apart. 3rd app 6 weeks after 2nd app. 4th app Sept 1-21st 5Th app 4 weeks after app 4. This work well for me and I have minimal disease problems using synthetics.

    Let me know what you think.

    Pete D
     
  8. Pete ,

    Clipping returned majority of the time, apply 3.25lbs of n/m; ..5lbs of p/m; and 2.4lbs of k/m. If clipping are removed increase by 33%! Yes 2/3 of n applied for fall release! My fert give me a long steady slow release, this is a must since I only make 3-4 applications per season. If soil chemistry is off, I can make some minor adjustments, but if to severe, will make additional applications! Again, I use both natural organic fertilizers and sythetic, best of both worlds!

    The natural organics I used are label for turf, so I know what the MINIUM GARUANTEE of nutrients!

    hope this answered your question Pete, and you proable could lower your nitrogen rate
     
  9. trying 2b organic

    trying 2b organic LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 566

    tim, you know an awful lot more about soil science then me, can u help out a noob. If I apply 2 apps of Milorganite in the spring at the recomended rate of 15 lbs per k am i applying way to much N in the spring.

    Milorganite 8-2-0 I use 45 lbs on an average 3000 sqr k yrd
    this is the whole bag.

    am i therefore applying 8 lbs of N on 3K = 2.6 lbs N per k per app?? thats way too much. why is that the reccomended rate? My costs would be much lower if I applied 7 lbs of Fert per k rather than the 15 lbs they reccommend! Should i apply it at half the rate they say?
     
  10. trying 2b organic

    trying 2b organic LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 566

    I think how i got confused is when u helped me in another thread when i was asking if by applying my organic fert at twice the rate if i could achieve the same #'s. But what i should have realized is the recc. rates on bags of organic fert is bunk and twice the rate isnt 15 lbs its 7. When i worked for a company we applied 3.5 lbs per k of trad synthetic. I'm talking about 5 aps per season btw. ty very much for sharing you knowlege and experience once again.
     

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