alco, hopefully you're well-enough aware from my posts that I'm not trying to promote Cat unashamedly (call me out if I'm wrong, as maybe then I can snap out of another, separate issue), but I do want to bring up two things. One is reliability. I said "aside from reliability" because my observation is that it's been an issue. For example: a machine was released; customers ordered it; the machine got put on hold for "quality assurance"; and after a few months delay and the machine finally shipped, it went down in the first 50 hours with a swing motor failure. My question was in honest curiosity -- I meant that I realize that Cat HEX may not have as good reliability (remember, this is from my standpoint and not reflective of the company's stance), so I was wondering in what other areas they fall short. I know that's overlooking a huge aspect of machine design; I just think it's already present so was wondering about other aspects. Maybe I'm buying into marketing tests, but from what I've seen, the 345D runs with the best of them. Put it in its power mode and it'll easily outproduce a comparable 450D or 460C; put it in economy and it'll be just as productive as a 450D or 460C and use about the same fuel. In other size classes, especially the smaller (20 tonne, 15 tonne, and 12 tonne), the Cats are able to hang with the best of them *now*. I wouldn't have said it for the C-series HEX, but the Ds are supposed to be better. (The same is true for some wheel loaders -- some *current* Cat models are just as if not more efficient than Volvo's comparable models.) Again, don't get me wrong -- I don't think that Cat has the best product out there, and there are definitely issues with everything in their current lineup. I am, or was, rather, exposed only to one facet of HEX marketing, and I'm just trying to wrap my head around operators' opinions.