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New Cat Excavators

11K views 59 replies 21 participants last post by  raschmid07 
#1 ·
Check out Cat.com and and rollover the Tier 4 press event and a picture of at least a new color-schemed excavator shows up. I'm guessing E-series, but I'll be interested to see when they introduce it. Is it me or have they changed their series pretty frequently the past couple of years?
 
#4 ·
No matter how frequently they change up the series of machines, they still can't get it right.
What's wrong with them? Reliability aside (and I realize that's a huge aspect of how much an operator will like a machine), I thought successive series have gotten closer and closer to the competition if not surpassing it.

That aside, the high rear-end is somewhat worrisome.
 
#5 ·
What's wrong with them? Reliability aside (and I realize that's a huge aspect of how much an operator will like a machine), I thought successive series have gotten closer and closer to the competition if not surpassing it.
You're kidding right? Aside from reliability? Ummmm, where do I start? Reliability is about the biggest issue with them, but on a similar yet different front, they don't last. They are nice when they are new, but get some hours on them and they just don't cut it. I could keep going, but there's no real point. On a good note though, I have always liked their cabs the best. The most comfortable cab to sit and wait for a mechanic in.
 
#6 ·
You're kidding right? Aside from reliability? Ummmm, where do I start? Reliability is about the biggest issue with them, but on a similar yet different front, they don't last. They are nice when they are new, but get some hours on them and they just don't cut it. I could keep going, but there's no real point. On a good note though, I have always liked their cabs the best. The most comfortable cab to sit and wait for a mechanic in.
Thats a bit harsh dont ya think. I have seen more cat trackhoe's with high hours than most other makes IMO. What makes do you like?
 
#8 ·
We have three Hitachi/ Deere exc. A 450, 330, and a 270. The 450 and the 330 have around 3000 to 3500 hours on them the 270 is higher. We have a 330 Cat that has 5-6000 (not exactly sure) hours that runs like a champ. I've seen an old 235C Cat that had almost 20,000 hours on it that was reliable as all hell. Granted it had ancient technology and the cycle times were so slow you could clock them with a sun dial...
 
#10 ·
Cat hoes last the longest, period. You won't find a hoe that lasts longer than Cat, just doesn't exist. Deere comes in second, Komatsus start falling apart after 10,000 hours. I've seen a FEW 10,000+ hour Komatsus out there but not very many. Ran a PC200-6 with 12,000 hours and a PC400-6 with 11,000 at the last outfit I was with. They both ran okay but were pretty tired and in all honesty, probably about to get traded off from what I had heard from the boss. We have a Cat 315L at work with 15,000 hours, still going. Don't get me wrong, Komatsu builds a good hoe they just don't last as long. Komatsus are good producers and will get the job done without a doubt but to say Cat builds a crappy hoe that doesn't last simply isn't matter of fact.
 
#11 ·
Cat hoes last the longest, period. You won't find a hoe that lasts longer than Cat, just doesn't exist. Deere comes in second, Komatsus start falling apart after 10,000 hours. I've seen a FEW 10,000+ hour Komatsus out there but not very many. Ran a PC200-6 with 12,000 hours and a PC400-6 with 11,000 at the last outfit I was with. They both ran okay but were pretty tired and in all honesty, probably about to get traded off from what I had heard from the boss. We have a Cat 315L at work with 15,000 hours, still going. Don't get me wrong, Komatsu builds a good hoe they just don't last as long. Komatsus are good producers and will get the job done without a doubt but to say Cat builds a crappy hoe that doesn't last simply isn't matter of fact.
:nono: I love to throw rocks every chance I get at Cat but I don't think you can call them the best - or worst.
 
#12 ·
We have 2 6000 hour 320C's, and 1 has a dancing boom issue on the main pin.
Don't trash Cat unles you got some serious proof, we have NEVER had issues with our Cat's, all 3 320's and an older 330B that my brother bought USED with 6000 hours already hammered in to it.
 
#13 ·
You can argue against Cat from a production standpoint, I understand some guys just don't believe they can produce as well as others. However, from a reliability, resale, and longevity standpoint, Cat is practically impossible to beat.
 
#14 ·
I regularly run a Hitachi 450 with over 45,000 hours on it, and it still goes like a top. Structurally, yes Cat is strong, but after the hours start to mount up, they get very jerky and down right hard to do any fine work with. They are built heavier, but they are slower, burn more fuel, and the lack of fine control as they age is a major issue for anybody I have ever talked to. Even the Cat dealer mechanics here admit the hoes are junk. Just because it says Cat on it doesn't make it a good machine. I never said they are the worst out there, but I sure wouldn't buy one. I could go on and on, but I know the folks who live and breath Cat will just continue to argue because it's Cat.

Anything under 10,000 hours is practically brand new.
 
#21 ·
You're kidding right? Aside from reliability? Ummmm, where do I start? Reliability is about the biggest issue with them, but on a similar yet different front, they don't last. They are nice when they are new, but get some hours on them and they just don't cut it. I could keep going, but there's no real point. On a good note though, I have always liked their cabs the best. The most comfortable cab to sit and wait for a mechanic in.
I regularly run a Hitachi 450 with over 45,000 hours on it, and it still goes like a top. Structurally, yes Cat is strong, but after the hours start to mount up, they get very jerky and down right hard to do any fine work with. They are built heavier, but they are slower, burn more fuel, and the lack of fine control as they age is a major issue for anybody I have ever talked to. Even the Cat dealer mechanics here admit the hoes are junk. Just because it says Cat on it doesn't make it a good machine. I never said they are the worst out there, but I sure wouldn't buy one. I could go on and on, but I know the folks who live and breath Cat will just continue to argue because it's Cat.

Anything under 10,000 hours is practically brand new.
alco, hopefully you're well-enough aware from my posts that I'm not trying to promote Cat unashamedly (call me out if I'm wrong, as maybe then I can snap out of another, separate issue), but I do want to bring up two things.

One is reliability. I said "aside from reliability" because my observation is that it's been an issue. For example: a machine was released; customers ordered it; the machine got put on hold for "quality assurance"; and after a few months delay and the machine finally shipped, it went down in the first 50 hours with a swing motor failure. :rolleyes: My question was in honest curiosity -- I meant that I realize that Cat HEX may not have as good reliability (remember, this is from my standpoint and not reflective of the company's stance), so I was wondering in what other areas they fall short. I know that's overlooking a huge aspect of machine design; I just think it's already present so was wondering about other aspects.

Maybe I'm buying into marketing tests, but from what I've seen, the 345D runs with the best of them. Put it in its power mode and it'll easily outproduce a comparable 450D or 460C; put it in economy and it'll be just as productive as a 450D or 460C and use about the same fuel. In other size classes, especially the smaller (20 tonne, 15 tonne, and 12 tonne), the Cats are able to hang with the best of them *now*. I wouldn't have said it for the C-series HEX, but the Ds are supposed to be better. (The same is true for some wheel loaders -- some *current* Cat models are just as if not more efficient than Volvo's comparable models.)

Again, don't get me wrong -- I don't think that Cat has the best product out there, and there are definitely issues with everything in their current lineup. I am, or was, rather, exposed only to one facet of HEX marketing, and I'm just trying to wrap my head around operators' opinions.
 
#23 ·
Sorry, I just saw that post as reading something like: "What's wrong with them? Other than the fact they can't keep them running." You have to understand that from my experience, since they went away from the 200 series, they have gone down hill dramatically. Now the 200 series wasn't a fast machine by any means, but I have seen very few issues with them reliability wise. We had a 235C that would drop pump drives every 1000 hours just like clockwork, but that was the biggest problem we seemed to have.

Now, admittedly, the newer series have improved a great deal, but they just don't seem to stand up mechanically in the long haul and still haven't shown me anything to prove they are a contender in the performance category. Like I said, structurally, they are strong, but the controllability aspect falls right off when the hours add up. It's like the become uncoordinated hydraulically, and nothing seems to bring them back short of a complete rebuild/replacement of the hyd end of things. My experience where we were comparing fuel consumption was with a brand new 320C and an older Deere 200C. We traded operators between the two to make sure it wasn't a one sided contest, and the Deere burned 2/3 of the fuel the Cat was. The Deere was also making 4 complete cycles vs the Cat's 3 complete cycles in the same amount of time, working side by side in the same conditions.

I haven't spent much time with the D series, but that is mainly due to the fact that nobody here really wants to buy one. I have seen one D series Cat sitting around, and they were working their older Hitachi instead. That tells me something, but I don't know the reasoning behind it.

I know our other mine bought a 365C a couple years ago, and I have never heard anything good about it from operators, or mechanics. Last I heard, they were wishing they had bought a Hitachi instead, but went for the Cat as at the time we were having parts availability issues and long lead times to get parts for the Hitachi machines. That seems to have straightened out from what I have heard.

So availability aside, my biggest issue with them has been speed, coupled with a marked loss of controllability as they age.

Undercarriage wise, they are hard to beat. Structurally, they are right near the top or right at the top. Of course, Cat makes a good engine, but it seems a bit less efficient/economical that the competition. However, the hydraulic system and controls left a lot to be desired.
 
#24 ·
Cat's larger excavators suck, I will admit that completely. The 365 of any vintage is a pile and even the die hard Cat guys will tell you that, they just aren't good machines. The 385 isn't far behind the 365, if you need something that large, Hitachi is the way to go. The 345D isn't a bad machine at all it's just a very large 45 ton machine, looks like it's 55 ton.

Outfit I'm with buys Cat and Komatsu, just about every hoe we have under 30 tons is Cat and the rest are Komatsu. We do have a 375, not sure on the hours but our PC600-8 and PC800-8 have less than 2,000 hours each. I'll be curious to see how they hold up.

I think you will find that Cat's smaller hoes to hold up quite well. The 200 series and even early 300 series machines kicked some serious ass in their day and if well taken care of, will still perform adequately 15 years later.

Fuel consumption with Cat hoes can't be argued, I know they burn a wad of fuel. Doesn't quite fit into the original discussion, that's more in the area of ownership costs but that's another argument in itself.

The D series released a lot of improvements and greatly enhanced Cat's lineup, IMO. I've run a 325DL and having run 2 different 325CL's and a 325CLCR, the D proves to have more power, stability, and greater fine motion capability.
 
#25 ·
I think you will find that Cat's smaller hoes to hold up quite well. The 200 series and even early 300 series machines kicked some serious ass in their day and if well taken care of, will still perform adequately 15 years later.

Fuel consumption with Cat hoes can't be argued, I know they burn a wad of fuel. Doesn't quite fit into the original discussion, that's more in the area of ownership costs but that's another argument in itself.
I would actually disagree with both of the above statements. My experience has shown that all of the 300 series seem to do the same thing, lose controllability as they age. When they introduced the 300 series, they couldn't compete as they were already so far behind everyone else. We got a new 320 when they were introduced, and our old 215C could whip it's but with no effort.

I also think fuel consumption plays into this. Even if a machine ran flawlessly, but gulped fuel, that would put a sour taste into most smaller operators mouths. In that sense, I feel it fits into the discussion just fine.
 
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