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Discussion in 'Pesticide & Herbicide Application' started by bobbygedd, Jan 29, 2003.

  1. Ric

    Ric LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 11,956

    Oops link does not work Try Bluebook.com or Cdms.net to get label.

    Ps Basagran (bentazon) can be mixed with Roundup to spray beds.

    Pss Manage (halosulfuron) is only good for about 6 hour after mixed. after that it is no longer effective.
  2. bobbygedd

    bobbygedd LawnSite Fanatic
    from NJ
    Posts: 10,178

    ok, i think u hit it on the head. the two worse cases of nut i had this past year , both homeowners told me, "ive been pulling them out by hand every year, but it doesnt seem to help." i knew that hand pulling would cause adverse effects, but i didnt realize these effects would carry over from year to year in a "snowballing" scenerio. thanks dudes
  3. KerryB

    KerryB LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 661

    Just a point of fact: The state of NC dept of Agri. as well as NC State University consider Nutsedge as a Grassy weed.
  4. xpnd

    xpnd LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 378

    After reading Pennats label I sent Syngenta an e-mail for additional specific info. The label reads almost like what my Lesco dealer said. Speficially I asked if the product controls nut sedge versus killing it. Control does not necessarily and usually does not mean kill in the industry. Additionally I asked how it works. Most pre-emergents work by creating a chem barrier within the top 1/2 of soil. Nut sedge is generally much deeper, at least it is here in TX. Also I asked them to quanitfy injury to desirable turfgrass statement. If they elect to respond in a timely fashion I will post there message or start a new thread.
  5. Ric

    Ric LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 11,956

    #1 sedge is water loving. Control irrigation or improve drainage.

    #1 sedge is water loving. Control irrigation or improve drainage.

    #1 sedge is water loving. Control irrigation or improve drainage.

    #1 sedge is water loving. Control irrigation or improve drainage.

    #1 sedge is water loving. Control irrigation or improve drainage.
  6. xpnd

    xpnd LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 378

    LMAO. Control irrigation. Do you mean to say that there is another way for homeowners to water their lawn other than in the automatic setting. LOL. I'm not disputing your point. I have zippo nut sedge on my commercial accounts where I set the controller -usually manual. I walk in the building each week and hit the manual start button as the crew is blowing down the concrete. That way I maintain contact with the right people. But real world trying to explain to some of these water hogs they should allow the top 1/2" to 1" of soil to become dry before applying water is equivalent to beating your head against the wall. Attempting to explain microclimates is like explaining Quantum Physics to a toddler. When you stop both it feels so much better. Havimg/Finding a product that would actually kill nut sedge would be soooooo much easier. Not the best solution, just an easier one.
  7. GroundKprs

    GroundKprs LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,969

    I must again conditionally disagree with Ric, just a little.

    In my experience, heavy soils (poorly drained) are much more susceptable to successful yellow nutsedge germination. But being a hot weather plant, once established YN is very hardy in dry situations. I have non-irrigated lawns where YN is the only green in Aug. It will wilt before crabgrass and foxtail in a droughty situation. And it will not spread as quickly in dry soils. So irrigation moderation is a plus in YN control. So there, I do agree with Mr. OFtO in that respect.

    But to contol established YN, you must understand <a href="http://www.turf.uiuc.edu/weed_web/descriptions/yellownutsedge.htm">the physiology</a> of the plant. Note especially the comments on tubers in that doc. If YN is already established, I will tell client that we will control it with a long term strategy. It could honestly take 10 years or longer to significantly control a large area of established YN, but if you are doing it right, every year you will see a reduction in total population. Nothing with tubers is easy to control, because you just cannot get enough pesticide into the tubers to kill them. You must stay on top of the problem, treating the sprouts frequently enough that new tubers cannot be formed. Even a total kill of the area and reseeding will not eliminate the tubers. Only way is to remove soil and replace with clean soil, or to use fumigation to kill everything in the soil.

    NOTE: if you have a new lawn, where YN nutlets were brought in with topsoil additions (I've had that twice from same landscaper) you can pretty easily get control as long as you hit the sprouts when you first see them. Knowing the difficulty of YN control, I would even chance harming a new seeding to control the YN.

    And as with treating other hot weather weeds in cool season turf, I like to apply on a good hot day. Your C3 turf is hardly metabolizing then, and the hot weater weed is metabolizing like mad - so you have less chance of phyto on the turf, and better absorption of treatment in target. I gave up on Basagran when Manage came out; unless the former has been somehow improved in the last 10 years, Manage is by far the preferred product, if you use the surfactant as specified.

    And the idea of "control" versus "kill" in pesticide use was settled 20-30 years ago. The word "kill" was judged to be a socially violent term to use when describing chemical applications around places people frequent. Also, "kill" connotes a finality, and no one in his right mind working with nature will sell something that is the final answer, because in dealing with nature nothing is 100%. Hence today, we sell weed control and pest control. If you are still thinking of "killing" the pest in any circumstance, you are living in a fairy tale world.
  8. Rob T

    Rob T LawnSite Member
    Posts: 165

    Last time I used Manage it burned out the turf everywhere i had been spraying the nutsedge. A few weeks later I had lawns with dead spots everywhere I had spot sprayed. The only thing growing in those dead areas was the nutsedge!

    Don't think my customers were too happy about that. Been afraid to use Manage ever since.

    Did I do something wrong?
  9. GroundKprs

    GroundKprs LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,969

    1) Was Rob using a spray tank dedicated to Manage? Or was the tank used sterilized from previous chemical use?

    2) What were the environmental conditions at time of application? Hot? Cool? Damp?
  10. Ric

    Ric LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 11,956

    Control vs. suppress not Kill vs. Control

    Lack of Industry terminology is the first sign of a nonprofessional. The second sign is quoting your Lesco salesman. So hate me for making a true statement.


    I was trying to make a point that unless you control the cause of a problem all the chemicals in the world are only going to hurt Mother Nature. They will not cure the problem. Cultural practices are as important as chemical. I gave a man a fish and tried to feed him for a day. He doesn't seam to like that fish or feels the label on the fish is not good. I will let him learn to fish on his own. I am getting too old and cranky to post here anymore. Please teach fishing so they may feed themselves for life.

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