Octane rating or ethanol. Which is more

Discussion in 'General Industry Discussions' started by Basilhayden, Sep 30, 2012.

  1. cgaengineer

    cgaengineer LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 15,782

    Yeah, 8oz of methanol fuel treatment in a 20 gallon tank is no where close to 10%. This was used to absorb water due to condensation which would help the water mix with the fuel since it attaches itself to the alcohol. I too can only remember ethanol being added to fuel within the last 10 years...
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  2. cgaengineer

    cgaengineer LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 15,782

    2005 was the year when ethanol was required in fuels...
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  3. kawakx125

    kawakx125 LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,124

    are you saying that the gasoline demand has gone down? i'm talking about the steep increase in price of diesel just in the past 10 years, compared to gasoline. 10 years ago diesel was much cheaper than gasoline, now its more expensive.
     
  4. 32vld

    32vld LawnSite Gold Member
    Posts: 3,984

    Not a stretch and I did not say ethanol I said alcohol since the early 90's.
    MTBE which had methanol as the form of alcohol was chosen by the Fed Gov/EPA to be mixed in the gas at 5%. In 1992 I sat in the class at a General Motors Training Center. Things I have been stating were taught to me there.

    Then methanol was replaced with ethanol when MTBE was banned. Since the 90's when alcohol was added to fuel whether methanol then later ethanol you could not buy gas that was alcohol free where I live. Small engine manufacturers have had 30 years to get ready. They chose to drag their feet.

    If alcohol was so harmful, people had no problem putting in two cans at a time of dry gas, isopropyl alcohol, in their gas tanks.
     
  5. 32vld

    32vld LawnSite Gold Member
    Posts: 3,984

    Can you point out where I said gasoline cosumption has gone down?

    I do know that every decade there are more cars on the road then the previous one.

    I do know that big luxury cars in the late 1950's and 1960's got 12 mpg.
    That luxury sedans today get double that.
    That my 2001 full sized suburban will get 20.7 mpg

    What I don't know is how much increased cars and light trucks on the road is offset by much better gas mileage to say exactly how much gas consumption has grown.

    What I did point out was a response to why diesel demand has geatly increased and this is why diesel costs more the gasoline. That there are so many more diesel trucks every decade since the 1940's. Where by the 1970's so many types of truck beside 18 wheelers have gone to diesel power.
     
  6. CL&T

    CL&T LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 493

    Yes. Actually it has because of more fuel efficient vehicles and less miles driven because of high gasoline costs. That has really thrown a monkey wrench into the government requirement of yearly increases in ethanol consumption. They were counting on increased gasoline consumption which is what they promised the "corn cartel". But the opposite happened and E85 never caught on which is why they are moving to up the ethanol percentage to 15%.

    As much as I looked I really can't find a satisfactory answer to that. Low sulphur and increased consumption are factors. Some places say that refinaries are geared to gasoline production so diesel production is less but then I see that we produce more diesel than we use. So all I can think of is that somebody is making money off of it.
     
  7. CL&T

    CL&T LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 493

    MTBE is not methanol, it is derived from methanol and isobutylene.

    Forgeting for the moment that ethanol and MTBE will destroy rubber compounds which include fuel lines and other fuel system components, there is nothing that can be done about phase separation where the gasoline and ethanol laden water separate out. This is not something manufacturers could "get ready for" by doing anything about.

    Well, lets see. Two cans of dry gas is what, 40 oz? Mix that with 20 gallons of fuel what do you have, about 1.5% if my math is correct.
     
  8. 32vld

    32vld LawnSite Gold Member
    Posts: 3,984

    30+ years ago when GM learned that the Gov. mandated that alcohol be added to gasoline changed the rubber composition and other parts of their fuel systems to withstand the use of alcohol. GM did so could the small engine manufacturers of done that.

    Back then GM said told the Gov that it's cars would have no problem with 10% ethanol but only could go to 5% methanol. Anything over 5% methanol would dissolve the TERN anti rust coating on the inside of the fuel tanks to prevent corrosion. Because the TERN coating contained lead and that lead would mix with the fuel eventually ruining the catalytic converters.

    As to separation which you brought up first I say one can't be lazy and leave fuel in tanks to long or use stale fuel.
     
  9. 32vld

    32vld LawnSite Gold Member
    Posts: 3,984

    The only further alcohol talking I will participate is about the kind Homer Simpson uses.
     
  10. CL&T

    CL&T LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 493

    More to the point I really don't know why you seem to be pro ethanol. It does nothing except damage equipment and line the pockets of corn farmers and politicians. This is just another government program that benefits special interest groups at the expense of everybody else. Indirectly you even show that we would be better off with straight gas because of the problems ethanol causes.
     

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