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Discussion in 'Fertilizer Application' started by TPnTX, Nov 8, 2009.

  1. tlg

    tlg LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 645

    Perhaps discussion would have been a better word.
     
  2. tlg

    tlg LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 645

    Axe, I really do see your point here. Yes there are plenty of LCO's out there that don't know or don't care about how a pre emergent works. To lump everybody that uses them into a bunch of irresponsible dumb @#$% is ridiculous. I think that most of us will apply these chemicals responsibly and by the label. From some of your previous post on this site I know you are not a big fan of pre-emergents and opt for a more organic approach to lawn care. In a perfect world all lawns are thick, green watered and mowed properly to prevent crabgrass. In the real world most customers never even come close to maintaining their lawns with good cultural practices..... leaving us LCO's opting for products like a pre to give us some sort of edge.
     
  3. grassman177

    grassman177 LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 9,795

    i am simply stating that in spots, not the whole yard, it is possible to establish seed after the fact. i have done it, but sure it does not always work 100 % . and by no means am i trying to mislead anyone, just stating my personal results.

    the original poster was talking about small areas, not the whole lawn which in case you would have to look into deactivating the pre em to do. i have never tried this and have no advice there. this has only been my experience with dimension, no other pre em have i been successful in doing a spot seeding. thanks
     
  4. TPnTX

    TPnTX LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,776

    honestly smallaxe (and im not-trying-to-argue) I understand the words you use but I can't attach two of your sentences together and make a paragraph.

    Without studying your words like scripture, which I have no time for, I do not know what you just said and it has nothing to do with comprehension. You have a very incohesive style of writing that I find hard to follow.
     
  5. dishboy

    dishboy LawnSite Platinum Member
    from zone 6
    Posts: 4,013

    IMO as well as many others Pre-M's are counterproductive in growing a thick healthy stand of turf due to root pruning.
     
  6. TPnTX

    TPnTX LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,776

    Around here in Bermuda if you don't use pre-em's your going to be fighting a loosing battle at the very least with crabgrass. Plain and simple. Bluegrass poa annua too.

    In this business it's bid bid bid and bid some more. Bottom line. Adequate quality with the lowest overhead sometimes means you buy the best product.


    Time Money or Quality. You only get to choose 2.
     
  7. tlg

    tlg LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 645

     
  8. Smallaxe

    Smallaxe LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 10,080

    tlg, I don't have a problem with pre-m. I didn't mean to give the impression that anyone who uses pre-m is in error.
    What really bugs me is when LCO's use pre-m, here in the Northern Turf Zone, right after the ground thaws, for CG. I have some lawns that all I do is mow and cleanup. The HOs have TGCL do the weed n feed.

    Now, Let's say I would like to improve the thickness of the turf by filling in the dead spots, that didn't survive the winter for whatever reason. What timing would work best? The timing of the overseeding and the timing of the pre-m?

    That is all I am talking about. I had one guy tell me that pre-m'd over the top of my spring seeding that because I had cover it with compost it will grow through the barrier. Is this kind of thinking a problem of semantics? Am I a nutcase that is babbling incoherently? Or will covering with compost actually make a difference with the effectiveness of this barrier?

    Pre-m does affect mature roots, but it is only temporary and the roots continue to grow once the pre-m is out of the rootzone. Pre-m is an anti-root hormone. That is all it is. :)
     
  9. TPnTX

    TPnTX LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,776

    all that would depend on the circumstances. Are we renovating a lawn that has major issue. what are those issues?

    If you are attempting to improve a lawn by overseeding and there is a third party who's involvment may be to your detriment, one of you is going to have to manage the job. With no management what would you expect? Since you have the most to loose I would think you should be the one to manage the schedule. Its probably best to seed in the fall if possible anyway which would make things a lot more simple for you.
     
  10. dishboy

    dishboy LawnSite Platinum Member
    from zone 6
    Posts: 4,013

    Okay, show me a plug of turf showing the root mass on a 25 year Pre-M lawn and I'll show you one of a lawn four years without.
     

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