Organica 4 Step Lawn Care Program

Discussion in 'Organic Lawn Care' started by 4-Seasons, Apr 15, 2009.

  1. Kiril

    Kiril LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 18,308

    Gee Ted, Got Issues?

    What is the most important part of an organic program or any program for that matter? Soil organic matter!

    What is the quickest and most effective way to build up soil organic matter? Compost!

    Time for you to step off your pedestal and join the land of the living.

    Oh and ......... Compost Does A Soil Good!
  2. NattyLawn

    NattyLawn LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,643

    I think you're the one that can't take the joke. I was taking one of Rod's classic quotes and using it over here. If one of us would have posted what you did in "your" forum it would have been another 50 page thread.

    As far as your arrogant a$$holes comment, IMO I refer to those people who are so set in their ways that they refuse to consider or put down people who have different ways of doing things. Go over to the pest forum and the nail that sticks out gets hammered down by the forum bullies. You like the T3000? No the Z-Spray is the best. I loved that thread where Rod wouldn't let Ray do his review of both machines. "You're not comparing apples to apples." No shat buddy, they're two different machines. Over here we're all applying different materials to reach the same goal (except for Marcos and Dishboy). If you don't think I've helped anyone, go read my past posts.

    Also, Treegal had a ton of info to offer, but she wasn't this gentle person that people are making her out to be. She was often rude, when you could understand her posts, but she got a free pass in many cases cause she's a female, which happens more often than not for any woman in a male dominated industry.
  3. dishboy

    dishboy LawnSite Platinum Member
    from zone 6
    Posts: 4,234

    Two questions
    !. How is my my choice of materials different than others, is not everybody using waste stream materials to feed microbes and adding OM to increase SOM?

    2. Who appointed you forum policeman?
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2009
  4. WannaBeOrganic

    WannaBeOrganic LawnSite Member
    Posts: 90

    Let's get to the heart of the matter. This all started because I bumped the thread to clarify that Microbial Soil Conditioner and Kelp Booster contained calcium carbonate and not calcium magnesium carbonate.

    Obviously some of you are very strongly pro or anti magnesium and you're hiding behind compost, politics, synthetic vs organic, creationism vs evolution, facial hair, etc arguments just because you don't want to expose your true love or hate for magnesium.

    Guys. It's just a mineral, there's no reason to start a war over it. There is room in this world both magnesophiles and magnesophobes to peacefully coexist. In fact, that's what makes this country so great. Everyone grab a beer and relax.

  5. phasthound

    phasthound LawnSite Platinum Member
    Posts: 4,584

    Amen, too much testosterone, not enough beer. :drinkup: Flying Fish Amber Ale is my favorite. Thumbs Up
  6. Marcos

    Marcos LawnSite Gold Member
    Posts: 3,720

    Here here! :waving:
    Compost does not work in every specific landscape situation, nor is all homeowner clientele accepting of the use of it... by a long shot.

    There are multiple ways to skin this same cat.
    And at the end of the day, any practical combination of these means can be viable for a successful end result, assuming both parties are communicating & working together from beginning to end.
  7. Kiril

    Kiril LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 18,308

    I happen to agree, but go ahead and name some real reasons, not "my client doesn't like it" or "compost doesn't support the local farmers".

    While you are at it, please address what can be used to replace it and how much material and time will be required to accomplish the same result.

    Let's say the desired result is raising SOM by 5%.
  8. Marcos

    Marcos LawnSite Gold Member
    Posts: 3,720

    All righty, then....just off the top of my head....

    1) areas where turf is historically subject to high storm erosion
    2) new, compacted clay in turf that's not yet been adequately aerated
    3) high traffic areas particularly those adjacent to entrance ways, where it could be quite easily tracked in the building by kids, hot-box break-time smokers, you name it.
    4) in any situation where a client isn't interested in using it, for any reason.

    Replacements (for both lawn & garden):

    Corn gluten
    corn meal
    bone meal
    blood meal
    kelp meal
    dried molasses
    soybean meal
    alfalfa meal
    cotton seed meal

    Raising OM by 5%
    Who cares?:laugh:
    What does this number matter, so long as the results are there, and the customers are happy?
    Frankly, this question never comes up, even when doing quotes to municipalities & higher-end sports turf.
    So, what's the point in even bothering?

    We promote a program of 4 applications / year of mixed protein meals at 15- 20 # / 1000 sq.ft
    Either that, or topdressing w/ compost 2 X / year, spring & fall.
    It really matters nothing to me, profit-wise, whitch option a prospective customer chooses.
    In fact, if they wanted to for whatever reason, they may opt to go with something like this for 2009, for a lawn that had a bit of a pH problem, for example:


    Round 1, March/ April: Corn gluten meal (40 # / 1000 rate) Sidewalk / driveway 'hard' edges only, cotton seed meal (15-20# / 1000 sf) in balance of lawn

    Round 2 , May/June: Cotton seed meal (15-20# / 1000 sf) entire lawn.
    IPM treat any pests as needed.

    Round 3, August/September: Aerate after irrigation, then seed and topdress with 1/4 to 1/3 " finished compost


    Consumers like vendors with a certain amount of FlExiBiLitY in their programs!
    You should know that by now, Kiril!:waving:

    Material & time? Haven't we gone over this before, Kiril?:confused:
    Of course, it would take 4 total stops out to this customer's lawn to meet the same level of OM as compost.

    So, what's our advantage, then? :confused:
    Generally, MUCH, MUCH less charge per app with the use of meals as a soil food, but were there (obviously) more often to go over any questions the customers may have, and to IPM any especially-troublesome weeds / insects, if the customers wish us to do so.

    You see, Kiril, we're not just out there selling compost & protein meals,
    we're selling S-E-R-V-I-C-E
  9. Kiril

    Kiril LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 18,308

    Compost reduces erosion substantially.

    Huh? What does this have anything to do with compost.

    :cry::cry: Never been an issue on any property I have used it on.

    :cry::cry: Guess when your pushing feed grains what do you expect?

    Now how about some real reasons?

    Really ... who cares? And you call yourself an "organic" provider? Stop beating around the bush Marcos. How much material and at what cost will it take to replace a comparable amount of compost? I need a 1/2" of organic matter for 1000 square feet. Pick any one of the compost reports I posted and do the math Marcos using the materials you listed. Don't worry, I don't expect you to do it because we all know what the result will be.

    FYI, some places require a certain % of SOM in the soil during construction, or did you miss that thread? According to your argument, why even bother with organics? You can do the same thing with chems "so long as the results are there, and the customers are happy".

    So lets get down to it Marcos. Do you manage soil or do you maintain turf because your "program" is essentially no different than your standard chem program which maintains turf.

    Exactly. Your bottom line is profit margin, which I suspect is the only reason you push organics .... because it is more profitable for you to do so. It seems quite apparent to me you could care less for the reasons behind organic land management, and only care about what is easiest for you to do at the highest profit margin.
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2009
  10. Grohorganic

    Grohorganic LawnSite Member
    Posts: 157

    oh no now we are going to beat up compost???? WTF lets try and stay civil and let science and not some mindless notion guide us....

    In almost every situation there is a need for compost, but the type of compost and the amount can be greatly debated and mused over, that said lets play nice for a second

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