Organics, All or Nothing?

Discussion in 'Organic Lawn Care' started by aclane2000, Jan 13, 2011.

  1. Kiril

    Kiril LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 18,308

    You didn't make any points worth discussing ... you simply regurgitated something you read ... and rather poorly I might add. Furthermore you did not even begin to address the question you were attempting to answer.

    Not following you JD. Is this your attempt to defend your statement concerning microbes producing the very same ions as synthetic ferts? Sorry JD, but one specialized group of bacteria converting atmospheric N2 to NH3 doesn't validate your all inclusive statement.

    He does .... where? All I see is a list of possible sources of inorganic ions. He makes no mention of where they come from .... does he? Yet that didn't stop you from misrepresenting what he wrote ... did it?

    Not an attack JD .... simply speaking the truth.
     
  2. Kiril

    Kiril LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 18,308

    @ecoguy

    A reduction in diversity is in effect, "killing them outright". To exclude a certain set of microbes in favor of another set due to chemical inputs is in effect "killing them outright". As soil salinity rises, pH falls, soil structure changes, etc..... you get even more reductions in diversity .... once again the net effect is "killing them outright".

    The statement "salt kills microbes", while grossly over generalized, is not an inaccurate statement. Likewise, the statement "salts don't kill microbes", again grossly over generalized, is not an inaccurate statement. To use one grossly over generalized statement to invalidate another grossly over generalized statement as JD does on a regular basis is simply absurd.
     
  3. JDUtah

    JDUtah LawnSite Silver Member
    from UT
    Posts: 2,636

    I'll give you that. Perhaps we should call this an ending agreement/ point for this particular flare up of this never ending argument? I'm starting to get bored, and the argument is maneuvering to personal attacks. Time to put it to rest for now. So... we agree that...

    "The statement 'salt kills microbes', while grossly over generalized, is not an inaccurate statement. Likewise, the statement 'salts don't kill microbes', again grossly over generalized, is not an inaccurate statement."
     
  4. dishboy

    dishboy LawnSite Platinum Member
    from zone 6
    Posts: 4,165

    Is diversity reduced if a salt as 21-0 is used (sparingly/wintertime ) on a Alkaline soil where the sulfur will lower the PH into a a more useful level for turf?l
     
  5. Kiril

    Kiril LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 18,308

    There is absolutely no way that I can answer that question, even if I did know the actual fert you are using.
     
  6. dishboy

    dishboy LawnSite Platinum Member
    from zone 6
    Posts: 4,165

    21-0-0 Ammonium Sulfate , 21% N 24% surfer.
     
  7. Tim Wilson

    Tim Wilson LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 795

    I can never really understand what it is that JD thinks he is arguing. It is almost as if he is arguing against himself. I do feel that many of his statements can be a little dangerous if taken as fact so hopefully everyone does their own research. I'm going to attempt to post a PDF of a chapter I ran across on the internet. I believe it is from the book The Rhizosphere An Ecological Perspective and authors of this chapter are Griffiths, Christensen and Bonkowski who are very respected researchers.
     
  8. Kiril

    Kiril LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 18,308

    Knowing that changes nothing. I still can't and won't comment on potential impacts.
     
  9. NattyLawn

    NattyLawn LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,643

    If you think you may be applying something that may reduce diversity, why not follow that up with something to bring the diversity back? While a lot of people into organics will not soil amendments like lime and sulfur, I feel sometimes you need to apply these products for short term gain for the customer. When you correct the soil you then can bring the biology back.
     
  10. JDUtah

    JDUtah LawnSite Silver Member
    from UT
    Posts: 2,636

    Yes. This is one way of saying it.

    Yes. This is how the organic LCO feeds the grass.

    There is generally zero difference between an ion produced by a microbe and an ion produced by large scale synthesis.

    :drinkup:
     

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