Paver patio and walk do over

Discussion in 'Landscape Architecture and Design' started by NCL, Feb 20, 2005.

  1. NCL

    NCL LawnSite Member
    from NJ
    Posts: 132

    A customer called to have me look at a patio and walk another company did a year ago for them to offer my opinion of what needs to be done to correct some problems they are experiencing. This job is a disaster, no edge restraint on the walk edges, saging pavers throughout, terrible cuts, wrong base material. I told them the whole job had to be redone, an d they agreed. Now I have to give them a price and deside if I want to do this job. Has anyone come across this before and did you take on the task of tearing out the old and starting over so you can do it right???
     
  2. mbella

    mbella LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,284

    I have done it. If your are going to warranty your work, which you should, the only way to be confident is to start from scratch.
     
  3. NCL

    NCL LawnSite Member
    from NJ
    Posts: 132

    mbella, was it worth your time and would you do it again??
     
  4. WhohasHelios?

    WhohasHelios? LawnSite Member
    Posts: 233

    No edging restraints??!!! wtf...

    That is a really expensive thing for them to pay you to redo now...Where is the other company and why are they not in court with the guy(s)??

    Let us know how it works out for you.
     
  5. kris

    kris LawnSite Bronze Member
    from nowhere
    Posts: 1,579

    I really don't like fixing others mistakes ... red flags usually pop up everywhere when talking with these customers.
    Usually a waste of time ...they wouldn't pay to do it right the first time and they don't want to pay a second.
     
  6. mbella

    mbella LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,284

    Yes, it was worth the time. It is very important that the customer understands the worst case scenario. The worst case scenario is always the same. You may need to excavate deeper. This could be for a couple of reasons: 1. There may not be enough of an aggregate base. 2: There may be enough of an aggregate base, but it was installed on unsuitable soil.

    Either way, you have to start over. Depending on your capabilities, I would estimate the following way:

    1. Labor to remove and dispose of existing base materials
    2. New base materials (fabric, aggregate, bedding sand)
    3. Labor to install base materials
    4. Labor to install pavers
    5. Allowance for pavers that need to be replaced (cuts, broken pieces)
    6. Edging
    7. Spikes
    8. Joint sand

    For me, that much would be a definite.

    Unknowns are: 1. Do we have to excavate deeper? If so, how much more material do we have to haul out? If so, how much more aggregate do we need to bring in? I would perform the unknowns on a time and material basis. Offer to have a third party verify your findings if it makes the customer more comfortable.

    The key is making sure the customer understands that you may need to excavate deeper to properly reinstall the patio and that in the end, the cost could be as much or more than when originally installed, especially if the first guy underpriced the job (likely). You could spot check the base and get an idea of what your looking at, but you won't know anything for sure until everything is removed. The customer needs to know that. Your contract should make everything clear.

    This is all assuming that you are going to warranty your work, which you should.
     
  7. mbella

    mbella LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,284

    Kris, that's a great point. However, some people do pay a fair price the first time and still get shafted. I include every detail in the contract and require 50% upfront. If a customer doesn't agree, I don't do the job.
     
  8. landscapingpoolguy

    landscapingpoolguy LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 819

    where in Jersey is the job?
     
  9. Rex Mann

    Rex Mann LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 621

    To re-do a different companies job can be a huge headache.
    First, you have to pull the pavers up by hand and repalletize them, if it is a large job, this alone is no fun. Next, you may have to re-excavate to proper depth. That is simply an unknown variable. Basically you are starting from scratch. And, the worst part, the homeowners will be watching your crew very closely because they already got burned once. Some owners are worse than others.

    Price wise, I charge at least what I would if the project was not a re-do. Sometimes we even charge more, depends on how many square feet of paves we have to pull up and the PITA vibe the owners give off.

    BTW: just because the paver work is not up to industry standards does not mean they hired the cheapest company, "scrub", or fly-by-night company. Many high price companies do sub-par work.

    Peace,

    Rex

    LasVegasPavers.Com
     
  10. YardPro

    YardPro LawnSite Gold Member
    Posts: 3,563

    we have done this type of work also. time and materials. that's the only way to go.
    it will surely cost more than the original install, as the materials are only 15-25% of the job cost.
     

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