PAVER PEOPLE PLEASE RESPOND

Discussion in 'Landscape Architecture and Design' started by FIREMAN, Mar 27, 2001.

  1. FIREMAN

    FIREMAN LawnSite Senior Member
    from n.j.
    Posts: 318

    There sems to be some varying opinions as to proper paver installation practices...my questions are as follows:
    1)base, what do you use?
    2)fabric, when and why...I was trained to use it only when the subsoil is clay..???
    3)bedding layer...masonary sand?? thats what I use...
    4)preffered plate compactor...one way or reversible what manufacturer??
    5)installed price per sq. ft....I know these will vary from job to job but please guesstimate...
    6)average base depth...walkway? I go 4"- 6"
    driveway?.I haven't done one yet
    7)preferred paver restraints??
    8)bricksaw?? any fairly good electric models, I currently use a demo saw or guiotine(spelling??) to make all cuts...

    Thanks to all that respond, if the calls I have gotten for estimates are any indication this year I will see a large increase in the volume of paver work I do ....lets all hope for a good year despite the stock market...

     
  2. Stonehenge

    Stonehenge LawnSite Bronze Member
    from Midwest
    Posts: 1,277

    Fireman -

    1), 2), 3) - see: http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?threadid=3053

    4) - Depends on the project - the reversible kind are of the larger variety, we use those for larger projects (larger = driveways). We have a Bomag (one way) that we really like. The important thing: a Honda engine.

    5) - Varies too much to even guesstimate. Last year we did one project for $6/sqft, one for $17/sqft.
    6) American Association of State Highway Transportation Officials says that for any flexible pavement in my neck of the woods, a min of 4" base. We use 6-7" for our typical patio/walk.
    7) Dimex makes a good one, we started using Curv-Rite last year - it's aluminum. Low profile, very strong, very flexible. It's all we'll use this year.
    8) Stay away from electric brick saws. Get gas. See: http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?threadid=2943
     
  3. Rex Mann

    Rex Mann LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 621

    Base-we use 3/4 stone down to dust.

    Fabric-we use it for every job(we are in heavy clay-Ohio)

    bedding sand-concrete sand because it is angular Not the same as mason sand

    Compactor-wacker with 5.5 honda for base and on top of pavers. Vibra-max plate rammer for the sub-soil

    Price per SF- varies $7.00 and up

    base-sidewalk and flat patios 4"-6". driveways 8"-10"

    edge restraint-plastic called snap-edge currently used, however, we will try edgepro, also plastic(way less expensive)

    Saws-stihl 400 14" EDCO 14" with honda 5.5 hp for wet (electric I'd stay away from) I heard the following story about an electric saw........................................

    First day the crew went to cut: the homeowner only had one outside outlet and, it was on a switch, which was inside and off. Of course, no one was home. Tonight they would call and make sure the switch was left on. Next morning they plug 'er in and it draws to much juice and tripps the breaker-buy a gas saw, more power and less headaches.

    Rex



     
  4. steveair

    steveair LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,073

    Hello,

    Base - QP(5A)

    sand - used stone dust in past, swithcing to washed concrete sand now (As a certified belgard installer this is what they want you to use)

    Fabric - depends on site conditions/as needed or if the customer wants to pay for it

    Compactor - Sakia 5.5 HP plate for most jobs, or rent a smaller roller for larger patios/drives etc.

    price - $8 - 16, going rate is around 10 per sq foot if job is under 300 sq ft, but will start to dicount after that amount. Dependent on too many factors as stonehenge mentioned before.

    Base - 6" for walks/patio, 10-12 for drives

    Edge restraint - seems to change every job as supplier tends to change brands more than his underware. Dimex is nice stuff though, however it does not connect at ends so a little bit of a pain for curves

    Saws - Partner K950 chop saw, up to 16" blade (can get great deals on diamond blades on ebay....been paying around 45-60 for 12 and 14" blades and they are lasting just as long/longer as the ones I've bought for 150+) 12" inch blades are nice for most work, but 14's and 16's are real handy when doing wall work.

    Wet saws - Ok, I will go against the crowd and say this. I have a 10" target electric and am pleased with it. I paid around 900 for it, after pricing out the cheapest honda gas powered one for around 1500-1600. I've been able to do a majority of cuts with the cut-off, so the wet saw doesn't get used as much as it use too, which makes the electric a good choice for me. No doubt gas is better, but electric will get the job done and is a lot cheaper for intial start up. (by the way, the story before is why I always try to get key to the house or make sure the homeowner is home for days of cutting - they do blow fuses pretty easily) If money is tight, I would go with a electric, because it will make enough money for you to buy the gas one later on if needed.






     
  5. diginahole

    diginahole LawnSite Member
    Posts: 249

    Good day,
    We use Ont MTC Granular A (3/4 to fines sand based gravel) for base material. The norm around here used to be 3/4 crush limestone, but it has been found to dissolve causing ruts and sink holes. We use 6" - 8" for pedestrian areas and 12" for light vehicular traffic. We compact in 3" - 4" lifts, using a vibrating plate compactor, watering helps the compaction. Our tamper is an Ingersoll-Rand with a 5hp Honda.
    Coarse concrete sand screeded 1/2 to 3/4" thick is used for the setting bed. We give the sand a light tamp before final screed.
    We only lay fabric when the ground conditions are wet to keep the subsoils from rising up through the base during compaction.
    Next, we lay the pavers and cut them in place with a Stihl quick cut and a 14" diamond blade in the straight spots and a 12" in the curves. (I hope somebody comes up with a portable laser for cutting SOON.) After the waste is removed a small amount of hand troweling to smooth out the setting bed is necessary. Then comes the plastic edge restraints. We lay them before the soldier border so the lip sits under the pavers.
    Once the borders are in, two passes with the plate tamper, spread sand, let dry, two more passes with the tamper and a few licks with the brooms.
    Anybody tried the plasticised joint sand yet? I saw some at a show over the winter, it really seemed to bond together and to the pavers. Could be another great add-on.
     
  6. Rex Mann

    Rex Mann LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 621

    Diginahole,

    We use the polymeric sand once in a while. It works well.
    A few tips: Have to use this sand 100%. By this, I mean you can not use 3/4 regular sweep sand and 1/4 polymeric sand. It is really all or nothing. It is very pricey and a pain to put down(pavers must be dry and no forcast of rain for 24 hours)

    Rex
     
  7. kermit

    kermit LawnSite Member
    Posts: 138

    We have used a 10" target saw since 1987 (used a guillitine before that) but with new tumbled pavers a guillitine works better and is faster.The gas saws arfe a noisy heavy PITA. We use polymeric sand ONLY as it keeps weeds out better, doesn't wash away easily and cuts down on callbacks. It only costs $10/hundred square feet of brick(standard 4x8 shape) it has to be wet after sweeping in so rain afterwards is GOOD.This sort of extra care allows us to charge extra, from $10-$14/square foot depending on size and site conditions.
     
  8. paul

    paul Lawnsite Addict
    Posts: 1,625

    Base material is CA-6 a crushed limestone 3/4"-
    Compaction I use a Skid steer mounted roller and am switching to a skid steer mounted plate this summer.
    Saws Partner 650 Active 12" for most cutting, 14" EDCO with a 9 hp Honda, with cart. Check out Pavetechs cart I think they are the best. Next saw will be a 20" saw.
    Fabric, depends on location and soils most times we don't need it but ..........
    Base depth, again location and soils play a part, we did work along a river and use 3' of base.
    Prices $4.50 to $20 depends on the job
    Edgeing Pavetech Pave Edge.
    Sand washed concrete sand.
     
  9. lsylvain

    lsylvain LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 777

    I think the average rate is about $8 per foot. Check out turf mag they had an article about market price this month.

    I havn't done any in couple of years but I was charging $10 per foot

    Crushed stone,fabric, masonry sand, plastic paver edging, rented tamper, my best friend, the mason who can break a paver better than I can cut them.
     
  10. diginahole

    diginahole LawnSite Member
    Posts: 249

    ?!?!I'd like to see that?!?! Hope you weren't using house bricks for paving.
     

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