Perimeter Treatment

Discussion in 'Pesticide & Herbicide Application' started by Harvestman, Mar 27, 2002.

  1. Harvestman

    Harvestman LawnSite Member
    Posts: 233

    Just wondering what everybody is using for perimeter treatments aroung houses to control spiders and ants. I was quoted a price for a product called demand. Very pricey $115.00 for a quart. Are there any cheaper alternatives that would work as well. Thanks Harvestman
     
  2. tremor

    tremor LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,476

    Talstar can be used everywhere from inside to the turf & the trees. So can Demand aka Scimitar & Battle. All three are lambda cyhalothrin. Good Stuff. The price is relative to the use rate. They're all pretty close & more than Dursban. Welcome to the new world without Dursban folks!
    Steve
     
  3. Harvestman

    Harvestman LawnSite Member
    Posts: 233

    Tremor- How about some stuff called Cents. seen a poster at my local lesco. Is it cost affective And do you know what chemical is in it. By the way I always enjoy your posts. Thanks Alot!!!
     
  4. Ric

    Ric LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 11,957

    Harvestman

    Talstar granules are a great perimeter barrier. I use a chest spreader and can do a house in nothing flat. They seem to me to give better residual than liquid. As far as spider go you need to educate your customers. Spiders are the good guys. They control other insects. However boric acid will get them. I am a great believer in baits inside the house. I do not spray inside most houses just bait. If you have a real problem try maxi force carpenter ant bait it works on just about all ants. Of course a light dusting of boric acid in walls and attic every few years is good also. Light dusting work, heavy dusting don't.

    Steve the other day I was in lesco (hard as it may be to believe). I thought I saw a new barrier treatment that was a long term bait??? If I am right it had a lesco label?? I didn't have the time to check it out. What do you know about it?? Oh and while your writing this novel you might want to include the new Chippco one year ant bait for our fiends in fire ant county. It can not be applied with in 60 feet of water or drainage ditches. It is a fish kill. For that reason I can not use it. But I have heard good things about it. Steve the Readers Digest version will work. I am getting to old and losing my eye sight.
     
  5. tremor

    tremor LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,476

    H-Man,
    That poster is for a new version of an older item.
    LESCO-Fate: Labeled for Fire Ants among many other things. Remember Orthene (acephate)? The stench has many LCO & PCO's looking elsewhere for comparable alternatives to this very good, yet stinky, contact/systemic insecticide. LESCO-Fate is a little lower odor than older formulations because the new "off patent" formulator is making a cleaner & purer form of the tech. To that, a citrus scent has been added to make a much friendlier end use product. LESCO-Fate is still packaged in 1lb cans but now also in water soluble bags.

    http://www.bluebooktor.com/Library/..\docs\label\L65356.PDF

    Ric,
    My PCO skills won't begin to compare to yours so maybe you can help me out with the baits.
    Around here a lot of guys have commented that the dry Ant baits are good until it warms in the spring. After the general insect population wakes back up, they switch to Ant Gel. Supposedly, insects such as Aphids are too strong an attractant for the ants, who then turn off dry bait. The theory is that the ants, needing moisture, will still take gels. This is the story on outdoor baiting for Carpenter Ants anyway. Have you noticed a similar patern in FL or is the winter insect population large enough to reduce the effect?

    I think the bait you saw might be Triad Granular 5% Boric Acid Bait. It's a weaterproofed version of Boric Acid. As you know, Boric Acid dust works great until it gets wet or is removed so it's most commonly used indoors in voids. The weather resisitant bait keeps the active dry, while the attractant brings the buggies to the prill. Insects are exposed either through consumption or mechanical contact like the dusts. Boric Acid then desicates through conventional means. Triad can be had in 40lb bags or the convenient 5Lb Shaker/Applicator bag. It's cheaper by the bag and we sell shaker applicators for under $9.00/Case.
    1 Lb is usually enough to treat 1 average size home in a 3 foot perimeter band. It's also labeled for broadcast application to turf for mole crickets & fire ants. Not sure about effectiveness for these 2 applications since we don't see those 2 pests up here.

    http://www.bluebooktor.com/Library/..\docs\label\L30090.PDF

    Hope this helps,
    Steve
     
  6. Ric

    Ric LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 11,957

    Tremor

    Your chocking me with all that smoke. North to South we are over a thousand miles apart. I am in a subtropical enviroviroment and you are in the ice cube tray of a White Westinghouse. What works for me might not work for you.

    Florida is the Bug Capital of America. The eastern part of Charlotte county is in the everglades water shed. We get 55 inches of rain each year but most comes in the rainy season 2nd week of June to 3rd week of Sept. Winter day time temp is 55 average. With out freezes our issues are far different than the White Westinghouse country. However ANTS are the number one problem insect in the publics mind. (629-ANTS my phone number)

    But ants are only one insect of many that we must deal with. Aphids, White Fly, and scale are sucking insects that excrete honey dew. Ants love Honey Dew. It is the number one favorite food of Harvester Ants, they even farm aphids. With all the warm weather we get plant growth 95% of the year. That new growth is on top of a already lush landscape, most home are landscaped on all four sides. New growth is the tender leaves that sucking chewing insects love. All of this is an environment that favors the development of Ants on a year round bases.

    In White Westinghouse country is your dry season not summer???? Summer is the time of when you are saying dry baits don't work? Your summer and our spring and fall should be the same. Dry baits work well when applied in spring and fall our dry season. GRI baits must be followed up with a general treatment, (the old Texas Two Step. see Texas A&M). However one of the reasons our dry bait program works in the dry season is because we do 4 to 6 ornamental treatments per year. We also do 6 lawn treatments per year. 4 inside treatment and 4 termite monitoring. Oh and 4 citrus tree sprays per year. (If you don't know Fla. then don't yell TRUEGREEN).

    Irrigation is cultural practice in Florida that helps control ants also. As long as they have water outside they are less likely to come inside. We would like to have at least 10 dry days for dry baits to really get into the food chain. As you know it is the attractant that must stay dry in order for the bait to work. Therefore dry bait are useless during rainy season. Steve bottom line on dry baits, they work in our dry season. (I will be looking into Triad Granular 5% Boric Acid Bait.)

    Outsmart is out of business (Best ant gel). Gourmet appears to be doing a good job but is not as easy to work with as Outsmart. However in the above post I stated that Maxi Force carpenter ant gel was good for almost all problem ants. Why? because. Maxi Force carpenter ant gel is made with a Knock off HONEY DEW. As you stated in your area the honey dew of summer aphids offers enough attractive food to keep the dry baits useless. Everyone has there favorite bait or product that works for them. Maybe some others that do inside PC will post there favorite ones.

    Baits are the pest control of the 21st century. As I stated in the above post I use only baits inside. Outside Sunnyland mole cricket bait works on carpenter ants better than baits labeled for carpenter ants. I discovered this a few years ago but can not use it for carpenter ants because of the label. Sometimes you have mole cricket and carpenter ants around the same house. Treat the molecricket and get lucky on the carpenter ants. Maxiforce Carpenter Ant Gel works great but takes 6 weeks to see results. Just hope you never get white foot ants. You might suppress them but control is almost next to impossible,
     
  7. George777

    George777 LawnSite Senior Member
    from Alabama
    Posts: 305

    Chipco has a new product out called top choice. It has a one year control on imported fire ants and 4 months on mole cricket, 1 month for fleas, and one month for ticks.


    Not all states will be allowed to use this product. I have not tried it but this summer I'm gonna give it a shot.
     
  8. tremor

    tremor LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,476

    Ric,
    I guess we don't have a "dry season" as we'd see in Fla. Dry baits work in the spring up to about late April/early May when the Aphids & their honeydew lure the ants form the dry baits at which point the gels are the only solution. Dry baits are OK again by our Fall or early Sept. Winter gets most people (if not the ants themselves) to turn their thoughts elsewhere. PCO's don't seem to engage in much Ant activity here in the winter since the colonies aren't active.
    George, we're selling the TopChoice too but I know little about it as yet.
    TopCoice contains Fipronil, which ahs been doing a great job so far.
    http://www.cdms.net/ldat/ld5FG004.pdf

    We're also selling Varsity granular Fire Ant Bait. It contains abemectin.
    http://www.bluebooktor.com/Library/..\docs\label\L45960.PDF

    Has anyone used either of these? Any preferences?

    Steve
     
  9. Ric

    Ric LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 11,957

    Steve

    Varsity granular Fire Ant Bait work here and aphids are year round. However I rotate baits for better effect. Not the active Ingredient but for the attractant.


    TopChoice has a one year control but can not be applied 60 ft from salt water or drainage to salt water. Therefore I can not use it. But have heard good thing about it. That is why I turned it over to you above.
     
  10. chemtech

    chemtech LawnSite Member
    Posts: 18

    From a PCO standpoint you can use a chemical called Ficam W its a wettable powder you mix in with 1 gallon of water. Thanks,
     

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