Permethrin VS. Bifenthrin

Discussion in 'Pesticide & Herbicide Application' started by whoopassonthebluegrass, Jul 10, 2008.

  1. whoopassonthebluegrass

    whoopassonthebluegrass LawnSite Platinum Member
    Posts: 4,214

    What are y'all's opinions of the two? How do they stack up? Curious to hear if your experiences mirror mine...

    Obviously there are label differences, I know. But I'm curious about things like perimeter sprays, turf-insect kills, ornamental sprays.

    Are there other products you guys prefer that are in the same price range?
     
  2. LIBERTYLANDSCAPING

    LIBERTYLANDSCAPING LawnSite Bronze Member
    from Indiana
    Posts: 1,283

    On ornamental sprays, both kill predators of mites.....Not good! Bifenthrin does control some mites (although limited) so I use that, or add a mitecide to my permethrin. My favorite it Imidicloprid for ornamentals (drench or foliar spray):)
     
  3. whoopassonthebluegrass

    whoopassonthebluegrass LawnSite Platinum Member
    Posts: 4,214

    Sufficient turf uptake for Imidachloprid is two weeks. Trees is 4-5 weeks. Where do shrubs and ornamentals fall into this? And is drenching faster/slower/same as foliar application?
     
  4. LIBERTYLANDSCAPING

    LIBERTYLANDSCAPING LawnSite Bronze Member
    from Indiana
    Posts: 1,283

    I use on small ornamental trees & shrubs. Foliar spray has quick results. It is a local systemic if you use a foliar spray. Adding a little N quickens uptake. I use both imidicloprid & bifenthrin. The imidicloprid greatly increases lenght of time leaves are protected, while bifenthrin gives a quick knockdown which is active as soon as you spray it:)
     
  5. greendoctor

    greendoctor LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 9,106

    Permethrin has a much shorter residual vs bifenthrin. Also, bifenthrin has some activity against, broad mite, eriophyid mite and spider mite, especially if tank mixed with Ultrafine oil. If I were only doing lawns, permethrin would be the cheapest, but I do lots of ornamental treaments. Imidacloprid foliar can be absorbed by leaves in a day or less if LI700 is in the tank. It is a good idea to include this if you are doing water based sprays of either imidacloprid or the pyrethroids. Alkaline water degrades those chemicals. If Ultrafine oil is used, the active ingredients partition into the oil phase of the solution. I would like to try Suspend(deltamethrin) once my Talstar is gone. That is supposed to be some brutal stuff. I notice aphids rebound after using Talstar. Sometimes I miss the old chemicals: dimethoate, Dursban, diazinon, but I do not miss the hazards.
     
  6. Ric

    Ric LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 11,957

    My 2 cent

    Permethrin has the quickest knock down of any insecticide and I will only use Permethrin when going after stinging insects like bees and wasps. I have shot attacking hornets out of the sky as they attacked me with Permethrin. It also appears Permethrin will sink into my sandy soil better than Bifethrin to control Pyramid ants which are hard to get. But Bifethrin has a longer residual. Both are repellent type insecticides.

    Green Doctor

    I miss Diazinon the most. We are experiencing resistance chinch bugs in Florida and Dursban would be nice to have right now.
     
  7. greendoctor

    greendoctor LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 9,106

    I miss the dimethoate for trees and shrubs. That rotation of three different types of insecticides I use for scales and mites is because the politically correct stuff does not control the infestation in one shot. Ban an effective insecticide and I actually need to spray more. It was also a cheap and effective soil systemic treatment as well.

    The quick knockdown of permethrin might have to do with its formulation. It is an EC. I have only seen bifenthrin as the water based suspension. Onyx, is bifenthrin EC but that is not very common. Whats fast but ultra hazardous is Vapona DDVP. Have not seen any insecticide with a quicker knockdown.
     
  8. Ric

    Ric LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 11,957

    Green Doctor

    Dimethoate is not totally gone, at $ 25.00 a gallon It still has a Nursery and Agi Label. I still have two jugs labeled for residential use. Onyx is now out of patent and being manufactured under the Name Bifen XTS. It is my broad labeled insecticide that I use the most of. At high rate it costs me about $ 6.00 an acre. The best cost factor I have ever had. BTW it does have a strong smell when first applied. I like that because the customer complains and also knows I am not spraying water.
     
  9. greendoctor

    greendoctor LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 9,106

    You sure know how to stash the good stuff. I know dimethoate is not totally gone. Another profitable part of my business is custom applications in nurseries. The trouble with using it is the 48 hour REI. That is rough for an operation that is open to the public from Monday to Saturday. But I still use it in the rotation, because I do not want entire complexes of pests that are resistant to the safe insecticides. Kelthane is still around, but it is for nurseries and farms only as well. It is also much cheaper than the new miticides.
     
  10. whoopassonthebluegrass

    whoopassonthebluegrass LawnSite Platinum Member
    Posts: 4,214

    Wow. I though I was doing good at $0.21/M for Talstar Pro... That's 50% more than you!

    Is the Bifen XTS still labeled for all the same things? And rates?
     

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