plastic tank, pump questions

Discussion in 'Seal Coating Forum' started by jandjsales, Jun 26, 2006.

  1. jandjsales

    jandjsales LawnSite Member
    Posts: 8

    Hi guys, i'm new here and i see there is alot of controversy about the plastic tote tank and plastic pump set ups. I know plastic tanks and i know pumps, because i have been selling them for over 15 years. I can say for certain the tote tanks are not good for long term use, they are thin and if it wasn't for the steel cage they would bust from the material weight alone. a good quality tank can be bought from your nearest farm store, they are typically a minmum of 1/4" thick, (the tote tanks are about 1/16" thick). the better tank is available in several shapes and sizes and they have UV inhibitors to prevent sun damage, typical warranty is three years, and the good ones will hold a product that weighs about 12-13 pounds per gallon. any plastic is not really intended for petroleum products since the plastic is a petroleum based product and petroleum products will cause the plastic to soften, however i have sold several tanks and i know petroleum products are stored in them with no problems so far (7 plus years). these guys looking for an addition to their other home services want something they can get into cheap to get started, large commercial jobs should be left to the pros with the proper equipment. the pumps are cheap plastic pumps, but you can rebuild that pump for less than $100.00. I went through the same controversy when hydroseeding got big, a mechanicaly agitated hydroseeder would cost about 15 grand and was great for large commercial jobs, but for residential jobs i was building jet agitated rigs for less than 3 grand, my basic hydroseeder used a plastic pump, spraying a solution of mulch, granular fertilizer, seed and water and they worked great.

    Thanks, Jeff grant
     
  2. adam's landscaping

    adam's landscaping LawnSite Member
    Posts: 17

    Jeff i would like any information on how you built your machines?

    right now im building one
    525 gallon tank
    6.5hp trash/water pump 3" pump with a 3" suction hose. the pump feeds 2 2" jets and one 1.5" discharge hose reduced down to a 3/4 nozzle

    Does it sound like everything will work out with the design?
     
  3. NPCA

    NPCA LawnSite Member
    Posts: 34

    As long as you can apply material to manufacturer's specifications that's great. (You can't)
    Those rigs can't properly mix the required sand and the optional additives to get a "real" quality sealcoating job.
    Much like anyone can buy PVC at any hardware store and start plumbing, but that doesn't make them a plumber. (luckily for consumers real plumbers must have a license)

    We just do not think it's fair to give a homeowner inferior work just because they are "only" a homeowner. :nono:

    There is plenty of professional sealcoating equipment made for the smaller driveway contractor that is in the range of what the total of a good lawn care set-up would cost by the time you get mower(s), edger, leaf blower or vac, sprayers, trailer, etc. or even less.
    What is so strange to us is that people on a forum like this where people would be so foolish as to buy a $4,000 lawn mower or a $250 weed eater (you can get them at Wally World for $798 for the mower -says commercial grade on it, and after all they all cut grass the same - and a weed eater is $69) then balk at spending about the same for sealcoating equipment as they do for their (what would to the uneducated seem very overpriced) lawn care equipment :confused:

    Not being argumentative, but it's so incongruous that people here seem very concerned about the "right" way of doing everything when it comes to their lawn/landscaping businesses but pavement sealing is talked about like "the homeowner won't know any better, here's how to do it on the cheap...don't worry about what's best". :confused:
     
  4. Mdirrigation

    Mdirrigation LawnSite Silver Member
    Posts: 2,769

    To add to that , I bought a factory made 550 unit used 8 years ago , and have about $ 8000.00 in it including purchace price , repairs , and modifications to fit my needs. Thats basically a grand a year . It has made me 20 times that . I sell more work due to its professional appereance , my phone number and license are on the side and it is a good looking piece of equipment .

    I look at sealcoaters that run that square tank with a trash pump the same way that lawn guys look at the grass cutter with the homeowner rider strapped onto a homemade trailer with a cardboard sign taped to the stationwagon door " joes cheap mowing"
     
  5. SprayGIANT

    SprayGIANT LawnSite Member
    Posts: 15

    Totes are commonly used in the shipping industry and they don't "bust open" from the weight of the material that is inside them as you seem to suggest. Totes must meet stringent criteria such as puncture resistance from forklifts, they are dropped tested off loading docks with material inside them and the steel cages around them is an additional protective barrier that other plastic tanks lack and simply do not provide.

    Totes are not "thin" Totes are manufactured with puncture resistant, UV and hazardous chemical resistance technologies. Totes incorporate HDPE/EVOH 6 layer security technology which meets specific and well recognized UN and DOT certifications and industry requirements. Many other plastic tanks simply do not measure up to these standards.

    Totes are specifically designed, engineered, certified and were originally intended by their original German inventors as a high cycle and long term logistical service and storage solution for the transportation and shipping industry. They are in use by millions of manufacturers across the globe for the distribution of their liquid hazardous and non hazardous based materials every single day. They were and still are specifically engineered to last over a period spanning many years.

    Incidentally, the tote manufacturer holds specific certifications which indicate totes are well suited for use with a wide range of petroleum products. This is why many oil companies are using them every single day.

    For more information about these and other interesting facts regarding totes, I invite you to visit the tote manufacturers website:

    http://www.schuetzdsl.com/schutz/products.phtml#security

    My Best.
     
  6. SprayGIANT

    SprayGIANT LawnSite Member
    Posts: 15

    Not being argumentative either. Just trying to get the facts straight. What seal coaters seem to be perceiving from your suggestion is that the equipment they should choose does all the quality work for them. This is simply not an accurate statement. The quality of the work depends on the individual, their education, experience they have in the business and general know how. A spray wand is a spray wand, a tank is a tank, and a pump is still a pump. The economics involved behind this concept really isn't all that difficult ...really.

    My Best.
     
  7. NPCA

    NPCA LawnSite Member
    Posts: 34

    Your education on totes was wonderful but while totes are fine for transporting materials of various types you cannot make a decent sealer application machine out of one, not you or anybody else.
    They cannot apply sealcoat to a basic enough level to defend a sealcoat applicator in a lawsuit from a pavement owner for using sub-standard materials.
    What a ridiculous statement.
    You can of course do bad work with a good machine, so certainly the operator is all-important.
    However no matter how good the operator; tote-type equipment with trash pumps will not even apply sealer to any sealer's product specifications.

    It is better compared to selliing a sealcoater a old-fashioned $10 watering can like grandma's and advertising it:
    "Economy, all-purpose fertilizer, insecticide, applicator. Only $99.
    Why buy a bunch of over-priced equipment when our applicator does a great job of applying all lawn chemicals and hydro-seeding!
    NOW Add highly-profitable lawn care services to your sealcoating business with our wonder econo-applicator!


    That's why (part-timers take note) you NEVER see ANY tote-type machines advertised in sealcoating or asphalt trade magazines or exhibited at any pavement-related trade shows.
    The publishers/promoters would be glad to sell them ads or booth space, but the companies that sell totes know that nobody actually "in the business" would ever buy them.

    An accurate comparison indeed. :laugh:
     
  8. NealMfg

    NealMfg LawnSite Member
    Posts: 5

    well I am going to disagree with much of what spray giant said in his last post ,,
    I happen to have a few newspaper articles where them plastic "tote" tanks
    are busting and pouring sealer all over the highways..with there owners getting rather large fines as well....they are not designed for seal coating and the work load and the abuse seal coating equipment takes....

    and as for the equipment not playing a roll in a quality job I don't think that is true at all.....you must have good equipment to apply the sealer at the proper p.s.i to force the sealer into the porous asphalt.It cant just lay on top.
    you have to have good equipment to spray the proper sand loads that most municipalities require on a job. good equip plays a huge roll in making your business a success. To get your job done fast and efficiently to move on to the next job...You Must Have GOOD equipment. You need equipment that was designed and manufactured for seal coating. plastic tanks and air diaphragm pumps and trash pumps. are not designed for seal coating.

    these are the facts.
     
  9. SprayGIANT

    SprayGIANT LawnSite Member
    Posts: 15



    All I have noted so far is personal opinion and perpetuated generalizations provided without any scientific basis to back it up. I fully realize you may be an equipment competitor that lacks any understanding of the science behind how this equipment should function. Of course you are not in anyway going to endorse this equipment, I wouldn't in a million years expect that. However, I feel it's important that customers understand and are told the truth behind how things should work. That's why I am here providing them with these important facts and details and why I am not providing them with any generalized and perpetuated fiction.


    Kind Regards.
     
  10. SprayGIANT

    SprayGIANT LawnSite Member
    Posts: 15

    Yet, strangely, they have been advertised in trade magazines ??

    In fact they have been demonstrated at trade shows (I was there) and 100's of them are in use every single day and they have been for many years now...

    I know you dont "like" the equipment and that is your choice but please try sticking with the facts and try not speaking on behalf of publishers and promoters that you are clearly not in touch with.

    Kind Regards.
     

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