Bet you thought this thread was an anti-hunting movement didn't you? I have a mount in the other room. A good four point mule deer my brother in law got last year. The taxidermist let his antlers sun bleach though. Now for the help... For those that have been reading, you might have picked up that I am growing frustrated with some things. The root issue is that the organic movement as represented in this forum seems to not have a solid foundation. Now I do respect and admire the building that it is trying to build, I want to get there too, but the foundation is too crumbly for me. When I started to jump back into the organic mindset the idea of beneficial microbes was new to me. It fit perfectly and makes sense. At first I was told that fertilizers are bad because they kill the microbes. I ask why and the only reasonable reply was that the salts kill them. Microbes shouldn't be killed because they make nutrients available to the plant. Well, I am finding that those nutrients that are available to the plant are often found in salt form! Dilemma one. Then the concept of compost tea. Spray and introduce teh microbes. But further learning reveals that the microbes are everywhere. It also reveals that the real point to proper microbe manament is not to spray them everywhere, but to create the envoriment for them to thrive in. I believe CT's might have some place, but if you build it they will come. A betrayel of trust again. Then, as I try to learn the fundamentals of things, I am critiqued to only trust particular studies, and not give credit to other, unsupported ideas. I am counseled to use peer reviewed literature. There is value to this, but the problem I have is, I have not seen, or been able to find one peer reviewed article about how fertilizers kill microbes. How salts kill microbes to be more specific. Back to the crumbly foundation part. It is a good thing to try to establish an earth friendly system, microbes being part of it.. but to build the idea of microbe managment on an argument that you have not shown is supported with peer reviewed literature (ferts kill microbes) while requiring others to proved the same quality of writing is iffy. Very. Organics is currently betraying me by saying fertilizer salt kills microbes. It simply is not the case. Then, the organic movement tells one to use Organic forms of fertilizers and weed control. CGM being one of them. They say it is more earth friendly. Problem is, what about the fertilizers it took to grow the corn to make the stuff? And all that other jazz. I think most people on this forum understand this principle, but still, another betrayal. Then, as people try to understand workings of things and particular parts of systems in increasing complexity, they are reminded to not make things more difficult then they need to be. But learning the workings of how a particular organic principle functions may help one to realize that the part is, or is not, important to the organic system. Education and understanding is important! Especially when it comes to organics... The key to keeping and selling a customer on organics is what? Educate them! Then as one of the parts of the system is discussed in detail it is brought up that there are NO silver bullets. However, most of the subjects end in the suggestion to just use compost. Sounds like a sly silver bullet to me. Then it is said that compost is food for microorganisms, hence you should topdress. But, the food was digested already!? I am not sayin it is bad... i just question the objective principles! Once again, I love the ideal that the organic movement is trying to build. I just grow weary of hypocrisy and selective understanding. I know people in the fert forum who have tried to jump organic but have given up after years of treading water and being tossed by every organic wave that comes along. I do not want to end up like that. The ideal is worth the effort. I am not pointing fingers at anyone but myself. I want to make it work, but find myself more frustrated then is productive. I don't know what else to say.