pool sank in 2 hours

Discussion in 'Hardscaping' started by jrmyj, Sep 24, 2012.

  1. alldayrj

    alldayrj LawnSite Gold Member
    Posts: 3,767

    Thats terrible man. Learn an move to the next i guess
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  2. zedosix

    zedosix LawnSite Silver Member
    Posts: 2,629

    One of the many things you young contractors are going to learn. If you want good advice listen to your elders, they've already #%@ed up and know better.
     
  3. DVS Hardscaper

    DVS Hardscaper LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 6,412

    I'm not trying to be nasty by any stretch - but dude, (spoken in a chipper, comforting tone) I went out of my way and I typed a comment in this thread telling you - that there is NO WAY the pool contractor will work with you on this repair job.

    I TOLD YOU POINT BLANK :)

    I dont have time to scroll back, but I remember taking my statement a step further and I even qualified my statement by explaining why. I even references that it appeared you were way to focused on wanting to see the pool contractor drown.

    It doesn't matter if someone (the insurance agent) slipped up. I'm the contractor. I write the checks. My name is on the job. I'm responsible for rebuilding that job. Not the customer. Not the Man on the Moon. I'm not going to hire a contractor I don't like. Never. Ever. Ever. If I don't like you - then I certainly don't believe in you and it'll be a cold day in hell before I use you!

    Anytime there are tense, negative moments, ONE UPPING (you telling the contractor the only way you would work for him is with full payment upfront), whether it's for a prospective client, an existing client, or a situation as you were a part of - you can kiss ALL chances of landing that job GOODBYE.

    Trust me, no one knows better than myself.


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    Last edited: Oct 11, 2012
  4. jrmyj

    jrmyj LawnSite Member
    Posts: 52

    Maybe I'm naive but shouldn't you as a customer have a choice who does work at your house regardless of who's cutting the checks. I know if there was a company that built something I loved and wanted the exact thing recreated then I would stand my ground. I knew they wouldn't work with me and I didn't want to work with them after the bully sh$@ they tried pulling on me. It just feels like I'm being punished for being honest and doing the right thing and now all the neighbors will see the pools trucks and other landscape company trucks and not mine which they don't know the situation so I look bad in their eyes
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  5. DVS Hardscaper

    DVS Hardscaper LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 6,412

    NOPE. If you as a customer wanna choose the contractors then you should act as the GC.

    My customers dont have any say in who I use as a sub. I even have a clause in proposal stating that I can hire subs anytime I want whoever I want. (although I almost never use subs, but I have that clause incase I'm hospitalized, or all my employees quit at once).

    As far as the neighbors seeing other trucks there - you'll learn not to try to one up others and you'll learn when to shut your mouth :) As I stated in the permeable edging thread - as you get older you get wiser you learn to just not say anything :)

    Note my "Its You vs You" in my signature line
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2012
  6. jrmyj

    jrmyj LawnSite Member
    Posts: 52

    I would rather shut my doors before I ever backed down to somebody blaming me for something I didn't do and tell me I did a bad job trying to shift the blame and then open end threaten me that they could take me to court. I am not an outspoken person and go with the flow but those are the buttons that will always set me off. It wasn't one uping it was stating facts that they didn't want to accept. I Garuntee anybody else would have flipped their lid fast with the way these guys were talking to me. And I never yelled and kept it professional but stood my ground and was blunt but not once raised my voice. But everything happens for a reason so we'll see what this one was
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  7. DVS Hardscaper

    DVS Hardscaper LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 6,412

    I couldnt agree more, I'm the same way. Like my thread a couple weeks ago where the pool contractor wanted me to knock 30% off our job so they could mark it up. All they did was pass a lead on to me, they don't need 30%, it wasn't a project that they needed to manage. I specifically told the guy last spring that I will be happy to proce work for them but we're not discounting it and I will not work under them, and I told them that I would pay a finders fee for any jobs they send me and that I would refer them to anyone needing their type of work. So when he sent me that e-mail more or less demanding a 30% discount - my response more or less stated "you can shove your leads up your behind".

    But see, here's the kicker - when you/I/we contractors stand our ground - there is a reality. And the reality is, as soon as we stand our ground - we just lost ANY chance of doing that job.

    You remember me asking you if your work was done to industry standards? I asked you "is there anything substandard about your work that the contractor who redoes your work will easily discover?"

    What happened in your case is you got scared that you would have to go to court, with the potential being named in the suit. Your posts made much mention of it being the pool contractor's fault and you focused on his attitude, you wanted him to be the one to burn in hell.

    So, on a positive note you're not being sued, and/or you're not having to spend anytime meeting with the client's lawyers and 2 days testifying in court. (I was an expert witness in court, I had about 40 hours of my time invested in the case) Ultimately.......you're off the hook all together. That's a great thing! The wanting to be the one to re-do the work - well I call that "wishful thinking".

    About 7 years ago we did a $40k hardscape job around a pool. The pool maintenance company came out for a meeting with me and the client. The owner of the pool company told a blantant lie to the Mrs. I had no choice but to call him out infront of her. I knew before doing so that me and the pool contractor would never ever have any sort of relationship from that point on.
     
  8. jrmyj

    jrmyj LawnSite Member
    Posts: 52

    About 7 years ago we did a $40k hardscape job around a pool. The pool maintenance company came out for a meeting with me and the client. The owner of the pool company told a blantant lie to the Mrs. I had no choice but to call him out infront of her. I knew before doing so that me and the pool contractor would never ever have any sort of relationship from that point on.[/QUOTE]

    Would you really want to work for that guy again because that's what I was dealing with and I wouldn't want their company on the same ground as mine. I just get irritated that other companies look at hardscape companies as almost a second class business and that we should be cheap and bend like comments when the guys were installing the pool they displaced all the customers river rock and instead of fixing it they said the landscapers could take care of it like my time was free. I really wasn't worried about my work and definatley not worried about the new company coming into redo it. They are planning on leaving all the walls and stairs and still removing all the rock base to start the compaction over again but all the base rock is part of that area so it should be interesting to see how it goes. But your right I'm happy to not be a part of it again or deal with court. It's easier for the customer to do it their way and I get that. More a case of hurt pride and in business we all know our pride can get in the way from time to time
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  9. etwman

    etwman LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,460

    Zedosix is dead nuts on. It all comes down to cheap price and contractors who didn't have a clue what is right and a homeowner who didn't do their homework. I'd take a wrecking ball to the whole thing. There's no drainage, improper backfill (I'm not even sure if you can backfill against a shell like that correctly). Honestly, as much as I hate to say it, they'd have been better off with a deck. The attorney's are going to have a day on this.
     
  10. jrmyj

    jrmyj LawnSite Member
    Posts: 52

    I agree. I told the owner the other night after hearing about the wall would have no drainage that he should forget about the pool and told him it would fail again without a doubt and he said he understood that but his wife really wanted it so now its completely on him. I've only been in a family business of manufacturing my whole life so I know ins and outs of business but that was business to business. I've only been in business for 5 years and dealing with the end product and actual consumers is much different and I definatley have a lot to learn yet and took some good lessons from this deal. Biggest lesson is to not be afraid to walk away from a job if I think it's going to be trouble in the future. I really appreciate everyone's feedback and insight
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